lazylawyer312 (2018-2019)

Views: 15597     User Since: 08/10/08

Application Information

F - Fee Waiver, A - Attending, W - Withdrawn, D - Deferred
Law School Status Type $$$ Sent Received Complete Decision Updated
College of William and Mary graph Accepted A $750 -- -- -- 11/13/08 10 years
University of Virginia graph WL, Rejected -- -- -- 12/04/08 10 years
Harvard University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
St. John's University graph Accepted W -- -- -- -- 10 years
University of California Hastings graph Accepted W -- -- -- -- 10 years
University of Pennsylvania graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
Villanova University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
University of California Berkeley graph Rejected -- -- -- 02/06/09 10 years
Hofstra University graph Rejected -- -- -- 02/06/09 10 years
University of Chicago graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
Vanderbilt University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
University of California Los Angeles graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
Stanford University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
New York University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
George Washington University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
Brooklyn Law School graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
Boston University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
George Mason University graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 10 years
Boston College graph Rejected -- -- -- -- 11 years
Columbia University graph Rejected ED -- -- -- 12/12/08 11 years
Cornell University graph Rejected -- -- -- 12/11/08 11 years
Georgetown University graph Rejected -- -- -- 12/04/08 11 years
Fordham University graph Rejected -- -- -- 11/25/08 11 years

Applicant Information

148
3.86
N/A
Public, Stony Brook University
History
N/A

Demographic Information

Long Island
New York
White
Male
In Undergrad

Extra Curricular Information

Unique extras. Will reveal when everything is done.

Thank you everyone for your comments!!!

UPDATED 5/07/09--SOFTS

As promised, here are my 'softs.'

Education
--Stony Brook University September 2005-December 2008
--History major; cumulative GPA 3.86; graduated summa cum laude.

04/07-08/08 President, National Society of Collegiate Scholars (NSCS) National Leadership Council
--Elected president of a national honor society; 235 chapters in all 50 states of the U.S with over 650,000 lifetime members.
Supervised the council%u2019s executive officers and all regional vice-presidents in the country.
--Full voting member on the board of directors; increased economic sustainability and development programs for the organization.
--Actively interacted with all chapter presidents and thousands of members in the organization.
--Introduced and expanded three national scholarships; 400 percent increase in applications.
o Launched the Integrity Scholarship; worked with GEICO to raise $10,000.
--Enhanced our Planning for College Success Program that tutors disadvantaged students nationally.
--Helped plan our first all-inclusive annual NSCS National Convention that hosted dozens of corporate and graduate school partners; delivered the commencement speech at the opening ceremonies and ran workshops on chapter development.
--Served on the selection committee for the Inspire Integrity Awards, an award which recognizes one distinguished faculty member in the country who embodies the concepts of integrity.
--Held speaking engagements at multiple campuses.
--Helped coordinate our annual membership campaign season; broke all time high of new members to join our honor society (over 65,000 new members); raised five million dollars in revenue.
--Awarded Most Outstanding Student Organization, Student Organization Award for Most Outstanding Excellence in Advocacy Programming during tenure.

11/2007-11/2008 Chief Justice, Undergraduate Student Government Supreme Court
11/2006-11/2007 Associate Justice, Undergraduate Student Government Supreme Court
--Appointed by the student body president to the highest court at the university.
--Interpreted scholastic law and published briefs that illuminated judicial opinion.

09/2007-05/2008 Voting Delegate, the State University of New York (SUNY) Student Assembly
--One of four delegates appointed by Stony Brook University that each represented 4,000 students.
--Worked with New York State officials to strategize an effective higher education plan for all SUNY students.
--Fought for stabilized tuition rates and increased access of public funding for Stony Brook.

09/2007-05/2008 Senator, Stony Brook University Senate
--One of fourteen students selected to sit on the chief governing body of the university.
--Analyzed and enhanced various university projects that included economic development programs on university grounds, student activities on campus and student safety initiatives.
--Worked with prominent university officials to ensure the long-term success of Stony Brook.

09/2007-05/2008 Representative, Dean of Students Student Life Advisory Council
--One of fifteen representatives that advised the Dean of Students on pertinent issues that related to campus life and community life.
--Implemented student life programs that strengthened and enriched the overall quality of undergraduate/graduate education on and off campus.

09/2007-05/2008 Chair, Stony Brook University Student Judiciary
09/2005-09/2007 Committee Member, Stony Brook University Student Judiciary
--One of fifty students that served on the chief administrative body responsible for conducting hearings into violations of the university conduct code; hearings ranged from underage drinking violations to cases of rape.

09/2007-05/2008 Committee Member, Stony Brook University Academic Judiciary
--One of six students appointed by the university administration to preside over hearings that dealt with plagiarism and academic dishonesty.
--Coordinated with administration and professors when rendering judgment.

01/02/2008-01/31/2008 Intern, the Office of United States Senator Charles Schumer
--Investigated and researched data for Senator Schumer.
--Acted as liaison for Senator Schumer%u2019s office at press conferences.

06/2007-08/2007 Intern, Brookhaven Town Supervisor Brian X. Foley
--Actively collaborated with Public Information and Town Council to ensure town goals were met.
--Researched and collected demographic data for Economic Development.
--Represented the town at local events and fundraisers.

06/04-08/04 Intern, the Nassau County District Attorney%u2019s Office
--Actively investigated fraud and identity theft with the Criminal Frauds Bureau.
--Worked with the assistant district attorney on case preparation dealing with fraud.
--Analyzed confidential video briefs of undercover officers working at a crime scene.

Honors
--One of 238 students to win the annual SUNY Chancellors Award, the highest honor the SUNY system bestows upon its student body, spring 2009.
--Recipient of the Provost Award for Academic Excellence, presented by Stony Brook University, spring 2009.
--Recipient of the Undergraduate Recognition Award for Outstanding Accomplishment in Undergraduate Activity, presented by Stony Brook University, spring 2009.
--Sole recipient of the Distinguished Community Service Award, presented by the Stony Brook University Foundation, spring 2009.
--Phi Beta Kappa Honor Society; inducted fall 2008.
--Only student to be nominated by Stony Brook University for the New York State ACT for Excellence Awards, fall 2008.
--Sole recipient of the Distinguished Service Award, presented by the NSCS Board of Directors, spring 2008.
--One of twenty students awarded the Undergraduate Recognition Award for Outstanding Achievement in Leadership, presented by Stony Brook University President Shirley Strum Kenny, spring 2008.
--Golden Key Honor Society-inducted fall 2007.
--Phi Alpha Theta Honor Society-inducted spring 2007.
--Sigma Beta Honor Society-inducted spring 2006.
--Certificate of Civic Distinction, awarded by Nassau County Executive Thomas Suozzi, 2004.

Citations in Public Works
--Kimmel, Michael. Guyland. New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 2008.
--Moskowitz, Sanford. The Advanced Material Revolution: Technology and Economic Growth in the Age of Globalization. Minnesota: John Wiley & Son Publishing, 2008.

***Some things were NOT included in my original application package. Several of my latest awards (see top 3) were not included. However, this was the format. My personal statement spoke about my election to NSCS, which is not covered on here.

And of course, please do not plagiarize.

ADDITIONAL INFO & UPDATES

ADDITIONAL UPDATES

1/21/10--So I was surfing the internet when I stumbled across this. Apparently, there were people on the kaplan board talking about MY PROFILE!

Wow, I honestly never knew that anyone talked about my profile, let alone people on the Kaplan board. I honestly think this profile is pretty dull, in all honesty. I especially liked the Seinfeld comment though...

http://forums.kaptest.com/lofiversion/index.php/t18246.html

1/09/10--Got the law firm job.

01/04/10--HAPPY NEW YEARS EVERYONE! Wow, I can't believe that 09 has come and gone. It's been over a year since I first posted on this site...

I'm in my last week of winter break, but things have been pretty hectic for me. Here are some things that are going on in my life:

JOBS

*I received my first job offer today for the summer! It's not a law firm, but with a PR/Communications firm in Manhattan. Part of the firm works on legal related subjects. The firm does a lot of celebrity work, so I think that's kind of cool. I spoke to the founder over the phone today and he said he'd like to have me on board for the summer. I'll be speaking with him again soon (March/April) about possible salary. He says he'd like me to do a lot of different things (including travel to conferences.)

*I'm meeting an attorney tomorrow at a steakhouse for possible summer employment. He owns his own firm in the NYC area and has several offices in Nassau/Suffolk county, Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan.

*I forwarded my resume to a judge in the NYC area, who says he'll get back to me soon for a possible judicial internship.

All of these things were from personal connections and NOT through the law school. I've began to apply to law firms through the William and Mary OCS website. Even though I was offered a job, I want to see what else I can get. But again, applying through William and Mary OCS is not through someone I know. It's a crapshoot at that point. Which brings me to this point...

I CAN NOT BEGIN TO STRESS THE FACT THAT NETWORKING HELPS SO MUCH IN LAW SCHOOL! I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE AT HARVARD OR AT COOLEY: DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING TO FALL INTO YOUR LAP!

NETWORK IN YOUR FAMILY!

NETWORK WITH ALUMNI VIA. E-MAIL!

NETWORK WITH ATTORNEY'S IN YOUR AREA VIA. SOCIAL NETWORKING WEBSITES!

I've seen way too many sad stories of students who were in the top of their class from top law schools who just BLEW job opportunities (and their interviews) because they thought they should simply be handed great jobs. The sad truth (that I learned in college) was that employers can hire ANYONE they feel like. They don't have to hire you, even if you are top 5 percent of the class.

Here are two stories to demonstrate this: I was offered a job to work at Barclay's Capital Investment Bank when I graduated from college. This was through a person I knew. He didn't even look at my resume.

I applied for the White House internship for the summer of '09. I put down all of this great stuff, but was rejected. Granted, over 7,000 applicants applied, but that's irrelevant. Who do you think was chosen to participate in this program? I can tell you it wasn't the people who had great resumes: I spoke with plenty of applicants who had outstanding resumes. It was the people who either knew someone or had a family member who was an elected official that was chosen. In other words, the people who were chosen KNEW someone.

I hate to say this, but ALL other careers in life are like this: I got offered a job at Barclay's with NO experience in economics! I was a history major in college! How many economic majors would have simply KILLED for that job, especially when the economy was as bad as it was?! That is one of the reasons why I turned the job down (plus I had already been accepted to William and Mary Law School.)

This is why networking is SO important.

But the good news is that YOU can network too. Start by taking down your 900 pictures on facebook and turning it into a professional profile. And if you don't have a facebook profile, get one.

I use facebook for networking. That is where I meet 95 percent of my contacts. More and more professionals are using facebook these days. I put up nothing on my account that I wouldn't want the President of the United States to see (Obama doesn't use facebook, but that's besides the point.) Start searching for attorney's in your area to speak with. Most have it listed on their profile that they are an attorney. Start friending professional people. Start striking conversations with them. I've met some really friendly people on facebook; some haven't gotten back to me, but that's okay, I move on to other people.

This tactic requires sacrifice. You may not be able to post "the pictures where you got wasted at some party", but if you want to become a successful lawyer, you will use ALL the resources necessary to secure a job for yourself: you really deserve to do nothing less. And it may be better if you not get wasted at a party anyhow: a law degree is a professional degree. You are now a professional person with power, a representative of society.

But I can't tell you how many people discredit themselves right on their own facebook profile--and many don't even know it. Some keep their facebook profile private, but again, they are doing a disservice for themselves. If I wanted to re-apply for the White House program, I have the vice-chair of the California State Democratic Party and a Florida State Senator supporting my application. But, I do also need some money (or, at the very least, save some money!) The White House program is un-paid. :-/

The bottom line is to not only use your school's OCS resources, but to also network for yourself. If you don't, you will always be swimming against the current.

I'll keep you updated with how everything else goes as I receive more information. Until next time.

08/27/2009--REVIEW OF WILLIAM AND MARY LAW SCHOOL

Alright everyone, I've been at William and Mary Law School for about two weeks now, and I want to comment on several things and give an overall review.

First, let's get the basics out of the way. As everyone knows, William and Mary is considered #28 in the U.S. News Rankings. Over the last couple of years, William and Mary has gone from #27 to #31 and then back again to #28. So they are roughly in the 25-30 category. Some magazines rank them higher, some rank them the same as U.S. News. Personally, I don't know how accurate it all is, so take it all with a grain of salt when you send out the applications. I guess the bottom line is that if you want to work for a "white-shoe" firm (Wachtell, Skadden Arps, Morgan Lewis, Hunton & Williams, Cravath Swaine & Moore, etc) then the rankings are more important.

P.S. I wouldn't advise working for Skadden. My cousin hated it, but that's only his opinion.

The Admissions data for my application cycle was released last week as well. From the 2008-2009 application cycle, the average GPA for the entering class is a 3.66 and the average LSAT is a 165. I would assume the 25th, 75th percentiles are in the 162-166 range, a slight increase from last year due to the competitiveness of this year's cycle. Over 5,000 people applied to the law school from all 50 states and 53 other countries. About 930 people were selected for admissions and 213 people matriculated.

Okay, now that's that's out of the way, let's go on to the review. Overall, I really like it here. The Law School is two blocks away from Colonial Williamsburg and about the same distance from the undergraduate campus. It's a suburban area but since I grew up in suburbia, it is a nice place to study law (since you dont have the constant beeping, construction, general noisiness, that you would get in a major city. The law building is really nice, it's not crowded and everything has been recently renovated. The professors are REALLY good--probably one of the best things I have to say about the school. They will call you on you, but they will not make you stand (something the law school forbids actually (unless you want to, of course, but no one does lol.) And if you don't happen to know something, they will just ask someone else and they won't embarrass you. And so far the work has been bearable, even though I am as nervous as all of the other students in my class are. I think what gets me the most is that there is only ONE test (but that's true no matter what law school you attend.) The second thing I like the best about William and Mary is the student body. No, the law school is NOT like the Paper Chase or any other law school horror movie. The Professors really care about you and there is a lot of help offered to you if you don't understand something. Your classmates will want to help you too--they aren't cutthroat. If you happen to miss a class, they won't burn your book or refuse to give you notes. I feel the collegiality of William and Mary is attributed to the law school itself; the school prides itself on the Honor Council and the Honor Code that was started by Thomas Jefferson when the law school was founded in 1779.

There is one thing I do not like about the school, but this is a personal reason. I live a block away from the school and don't have a car, so getting food can be tricky for me. It really helps if you have a car in Williamsburg. However, many people who don't have cars have bikes. I just bought a bike so I plan on doing a lot of exercising :).

(06/01/09) I may continue updating this site from time to time. However, you all may notice $750 in the law school section under College of William and Mary. This was not given to me by the school, but from my undergraduate college. If I happen to receive more scholarship money from outside sources or the law school itself, I will post it here. I will also update from time to time to tell how my law school adventure is going.

APPLICATION CYCLE (started 08/2008)

Welcome to my site!

INTRO: The first thing I want to say is that this account is REAL and everything that I write here is truthful and accurate. Feel free to write, but please leave no derogatory or abusive comments. Treat my site in the same manner you would like me to treat your site. Thank you!

HYPOTHETICAL ANALYSIS ON MY CYCLE: My general feeling is that my cycle is going to be sort of unpredictable. Since my LSAT is no where near the medians for the schools I applied to, my personal statement, GPA, recommendations and my extracurricular activities I did for the past three and a half years will make or break the application. Since I didn't do well on the SAT (1040 and 1060, respectively), I knew that the LSAT were going to be the weak link on my application. Nevertheless, we'll see where my background takes me. I am not a minority. I am not an impoverished applicant. I am a white, middle class male going to a state university. I want to use my cycle to see if pre-law advisors, prep test centers, law school pundits and the like are right: whether the LSAT's are the "single most important factor" in the law school admission process. I also sent in an addendum with my SAT scores, arguing that my SAT scores did not predict how I did in undergraduate college, so the LSAT's are not accurate in predicting how I will do in law school.

I can answer questions about anything you may have. Please stay tuned and see where I get in, and where I don't. We'll see what happens.

IMPORTANT DATES

10/08 -LSAT taken and law school applications complete.

11/13/08--Received my first law school decision. I was accepted to William and Mary law. They got back to me so quickly too (my application was complete two weeks prior to this date.) So, no matter what else happens, I'm going to a top 30 tier 1 law school. Their medians are a 3.7 GPA and 164 LSAT.

11/20/08--I wish I could report on another decision, but this week has been quiet. However, I did receive a phone call from William and Mary and an e-mail from a student inquiring whether I had any questions about their law school and congratulating me on my acceptance. I'm not sure what the phone call was about since my brother picked up the phone and I wasn't home (they said they would call back.) I'm on campus right now, but if they didn't call my house today while I was away I'll give them a call tomorrow.

11/25/08--Ding. The LSAT strikes. I got rejected from Fordham. Checked via. status checker.

12/04/08--I have just been waitlisted at the University of Virginia. The Dean e-mailed me and said that he wanted to speak with me over the phone. Wish me luck!

12/04/08--I came home and found a thin envelope from Georgetown. Ding, lol. But I'm still excited over UVA. Maybe I have a shot? And I still need to hear from the rest of my schools.

12/05/08--While I can't say any specifics of the phone call, I am still on the waitlist for UVA. Regardless of what happens, I will be doing everything in my power to try and get an acceptance.

12/11/08--Rejected at Cornell.

12/12/08--I have been rejected at Columbia.

FIRST ANALYSIS OF MY CYCLE (12/12/08)

After being rejected from a bunch of schools, this has been a very tough week. Columbia's decision was upsetting. Nevertheless, it was something I had expected. In the end, it was not shocking, nor was it surprising. It was simply meant to be.

But, despite these losses, I am still going strong. I am in at William and Mary and I am holding on at the University of Virginia. A maybe is always better than a no.

I will continue posting as I receive decisions. Thank you all for your support.

12/13/08

No decisions since the Columbia one yesterday, but I have decided to add some words to every applicant who are currently awaiting their decisions or have faced law school rejections and are in the dark about where they will be going to law school next year. Call it a pep talk, if you will.

I say these words to you: fight on. There will always be obstacles in life, but it is about overcoming these obstacles that make you a better, more experienced person. Applying to law school is just another test on the journey that is your life. No matter what happens, never give up on your dreams as they can all be attained with hard work and determination. Never, ever surrender. As I head into the second part of my cycle, that is going to be my mindset. I hope it will be yours as well.

I will also be planning trips to both William and Mary and UVA sometime during the winter. I will keep you informed on how I like the campuses and of course, if any other decisions are mailed to me.

Never give up.

12/18/08

Rejected at Boston College.

16 more schools to go.

12/20/08

I'm about to go into Manhattan, but I e-mailed the Career Services at William and Mary and they sent me a very nice, detailed list of law firms that recruit students on-campus from fall 2008. Since I know there are some people who may be interested in the law school (including myself) I found this to be invaluable information. The dean said that a student's ability to obtain these jobs center around how you perform at the law school and how you interview. Here are the firms that recruited on campus for 2008 (for the Manhattan area only.) Google them if you wish:

Cooley Godward
Hunton & Williams
Latham & Watkins
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher
Holland & Knight
Morgan Lewis
Venable
Nixon Peabody
Wilson Sonsini
Hughes Hubbard & Reed
Hogan & Hartson
Ropes & Gray
Kirkland & Ellis
Fitzpatrick Cella
Thelen Reid (the firm has since dissolved)
Beveridge & Diamond
Edwards Angell

This is also the off-campus collection of law firms that recruit William and Mary/Washington And Lee students in Manhattan (2000-2007 data).

Allen & Overy
Archer & Greiner
Arnold & Porter
Baker & McKenzie
Bingham McCutchen
Bronx County District Attorney
Budd Larner
Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft
Carmody & Torrance
Chadbourne & Parke
Clifford Chance Rogers & Wells
Cole, Schotz, Meisel, Forman & Leonard
Connell Foley
Coughlin Duffy Kelly Lisovicz Midlige & Wolff
Cravath, Swaine & Moore
Cummings & Lockwood
Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle
Darby & Darby
Davis Polk & Wardwell
Day Pitney
Debevoise & Plimpton
Dechert
Dewey Ballantine
Epstein Becker & Green
Farrell Fritz
Foley Hoag
Ford Marrin Esposito Witmeyer & Gleser
Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
Fulbright & Jaworski
Gibbons
Goodwin Procter
Hale and Dorr
Herrick, Feinstein
Hunton & Williams
Jones Day
Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Kings County District Attorney
Kirkpatrick & Lockhart
Law Students in Action Project
LeBoeuf, Lamb, Greene & MacRae
Lowenstein Sandler
Mayer Brown
McCarter & English
McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney & Carpenter
Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy
Nassau County District Attorney
New York City Law Department
New York County Attorney
Otterbourg Steindler Houston & Rosen
Parker Chapin
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker
Pepper Hamilton
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman
Pitney Hardin
Porzio Bromberg & Newman
Pullman & Comley
Riker, Danzig, Scherer, Hyland & Peretti
Ropes & Gray
Schulte Roth & Zabel
Sedgwick, Detert, Moran & Arnold
Seward & Kissel
Shearman & Sterling
Sidley Austin Brown & Wood
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom
Sullivan & Worcester
Thacher Proffitt & Wood
Thelen Reid & Priest
Tyler Cooper & Alcorn
U.S. Court of Appeals, Second Circuit
U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission
Weil, Gotshal & Manges
White & Case
Whiteman Osterman & Hanna
Wiggin & Dana
Wilentz Goldman & Spitzer
Willkie Farr and Gallagher
Wolff & Sampson

Until next post.

12/22/08

Rejected at George Mason.

1/07/08

Hi everyone--sorry for my lack of reply's lately. First I want to say that I have not received any more responses from law schools. Things have been quiet.

In other aspects of my life, I recently graduated from college and this Friday I leave to Thailand for three weeks. It will be 23 hours each way on a plane! When I get back in late January, I will be visiting both WM and UVA. I'll post after I visit the schools.

Good luck to all on the rest of the cycle!

1/30/09

Came back from Thailand to a whole lot of rejections.

1/31/09

SECOND ANALYSIS OF MY CYCLE (and some advice): It does seem that the general consensus is right. That the LSAT, obviously, is a critical factor in the law school admission process.

(However, with that being said)

When Michael Jordan was asked what success meant to him, he started off by saying that he has missed more than 9.000 shots in his career. He's lost almost 300 games and missed more than 26 game winning shots. He stated he failed over and over again and that is why he succeeded.

I feel that, despite all of the rejections, that a successful victory has been achieved here. From the law school application process, I am learning more and more everyday about myself and about life. No matter how popular you are or how qualified you (think) you are, you will never be accepted (or successful) in everything. This is a good thing. You need to experience failure in order to experience success and define what these words mean to YOU. When it comes to law school, success might mean getting into one school. For others, success might mean getting a scholarship. And for others, success might just mean getting in. I also think this journey has reminded me that I am going to have to work harder than ever in order to succed in law school. And there will be no doubt be obstacles along the way.

So, what about me? What does success mean to me in the law school application process? I think success means overcoming obstacles, and despite this, succeeding. It means you experience failure and setbacks so the experience can teach you something as a person. It means reaching an outcome you are satisfied with. So, while I can look at all of these rejections I received, I am going to do the best thing: look at the victories. Despite the obstacles I faced, I have 1 school that is a definite and 1 school that is a possibility. Both are in Virginia, so I will not have to travel all over the country in making up my mind. Both are in serene environments, so I will be able to get away from the city for a while and concentrate on studying law. And both are good schools.

I truly believe this is success. Failure, in my opinion, would have been me not even applying to law school because of hearsay (not even having a chance with my LSAT score) or the belief that I could not do it to begin with. Well, I can definitely say that I DID do it.

What would I do over if I could do this cycle again? Ironically, probably nothing. I am glad I did not take the LSAT again (my friend actually scored lower on the second time around!) However, what I would tell to everyone next cycle is to apply EARLY and to apply LARGE. Applying early is probably the only reason why I was accepted to William and Mary. And you need to cast a wide net or you may be in trouble.

Once I know where I am going for SURE, I will post the softs that I have. I have promised you from the beginning I will and I'll keep my promise. You can interpret the softs and how they helped me anyway you want.

To all applicants, I also encourage you to go on Vault and research the schools you have applied to/want to apply to or have gotten into. The reviewers on there say invaluable things about the law schools. It's worth the money (and even if you do not want to pay, you get to read the first several lines of the review, getting an idea about the school.)

Things happen for a reason. I really believe that if you don't get into the law school you want to, you WILL get into a school you applied to (as long as you applied to safeties) and it may even be with money. No matter what law school you attend, success means working hard and sometimes not making that shot. But in the end, you still succeed anyway.

Maybe Michael Jordan is smarter than all of us?

02/07/09

Came back to two rejections, one from Berkeley and one from Hofstra. Wow...hofstra...really? It doesn't matter though, since I would not have went to the school anyway. However, I think it shows how competitive it is this year.

I went to UVA and William and Mary on Thursday and Friday and I wanted to comment on my visit. First, I want to say I thought both schools are absolutely STELLAR. If you have been accepted/waitlisted at any of these schools, please take the time to visit.

WILLIAM AND MARY--I absolutely loved the school. It had a small, collegial environment and everyone there was SO friendly! It honestly felt like home when I walked in. The students are hardworking, smart and really want to help you. The law school is several blocks from main campus and one block away from colonial Williamsburgh...unfortunately, it was the coldest day of the year when I went there! The temperature was a frigid 20 degrees, but even with the trees bare, the campus was absolutely georgeous. The administration is so nice too. I sat in on a class that spoke about constitutional law, which was very fascinating. Students say that the professors nurture their students and don't try to challenge them or embarass them in class (i.e. having them stand up or throwing them out if they can't answer something), which I thought was a major plus. The whole school has been renovated. The court room is EXTREMELY nice and state of the art. The library is VERY spacious and the dorms are right next door to the law school. If things do not work out with UVA, this is definitely the law school for me.

UVA--Like William and Mary, I LOVED this school too. The building is larger than William and Mary's, but you can definitely sense the collegiality that is present with its student body. UVA also has an honor code system like William and Mary, which I really like too. Downtown Charlottesville is really nice and fortunately, it was warmer that say since a warm front was moving into the VA region. The students are extremely intellectual, but very friendly. There isn't that competitiveness that you would see at a top law school. The students want to help you out. The library is just as nice as William and Mary's, with plenty of room for sitting and a lounge for people to study together in. And obviously, you can't go wrong with either of the school's alumni base. Both have VERY strong alumni support. Of course, UVA may have a more prestigious base since many are involved in politics and the judicial system. And because of the rankings system, it also may be easier to secure that prestigious job if you want it. Overall, I was VERY impressed by both schools.

I do have to say though: this year is one of the worst times to be applying to law school. I hear that applications are up 20 PERCENT at UVA! Most, if not all law schools, are probably seeing the same phenomena.

WHAT ADVICE I WOULD GIVE TO EVERYONE

Regardless of the year, I would tell everyone to be patient and apply to a lot of law schools. Looking back on it, a lot of people think 23 law schools are a lot, but I'm thinking that I probably should have applied to MORE. Think about it. Let's say I get rejected from the remainder of my law schools, which is a good possibility. If I had only applied to 21 law schools (and left WM and UVA out), I would have received 21 REJECTIONS. You only need ONE acceptance, which is why the more law schools you apply to, the better.

And of course, a really great LSAT score really does help too. ;)

To everyone who is waitlisted, I encourage you to visit the school. You may like the school, you may not. However, you won't know until you go there and see the environment. And besides that, you just need to be patient.

2/22/09

Well, everything has been quiet. I haven't heard from other law schools yet. Since I only have several more to hear from, I think I will post the other schools in one posting.

As for you, how are you doing this cycle? Getting into the schools you want to get into? Post your successes on my wall! Test scores aside, is there anything in this cycle you wish you did differently? I want to hear you!

3/28/09

It's been a while, but I have heard back from the rest of my schools, so my cycle is (almost) complete! Now, I am just waiting on UVA before I post my softs/last comments. At the LATEST, it should be before the end of July. Thank you everyone for your helpful posts!

4/16/09

I have put my deposit down at William and Mary, but I am also still waiting to hear from UVA. While I won't discuss any specifics, I have heard through the grapevine that there was going to be "substantial cuts" this week in regard to the waitlist.

So far I have not been cut--yet. But, nevertheless, I think the situation still looks grim in regard to my chances at getting off. Only time will tell. If I am still on in another month or two, then there may be a chance of me being accepted. UVA is still my top choice. If not, then it's WM!

5/06/09

Still waitlisted at UVA.

5/07/09

UPDATED 5/07/09 ***FINAL POST***

Today I was released from the UVA waitlist. To comment on this cycle overall, it has been horribly competitive. Looking back on it, I was lucky to get into the schools I got into.

I know some people have been waiting patiently to see what my 'softs' were. They will be posted today. Please check the 'extracurricular' section of my profile.

I made this profile in order for people to see whether a white, middle class male with no AA or legacy benefits and a poor LSAT score could get into not only a law school, but a great law school.

And I think it has been mostly successful.

I end my postings with these thoughts: don't believe everything you hear about people who say ' law school rankings are the only thing that matters' or 'the LSAT is the single most important factor in law school success.' As you go through life, you will find it is your personality, your work ethic, your determination to succeed and your people skills who will define who you are and what type of job you will get. What do I mean by 'people skills?' What I mean is how you interact with people. Are you a leader? Do you inspire people? Do people look up to you? Do you interview well? If there's a problem, are you the "go to" guy/gal? Do people ask you for advice?

The law school you go to is only important when you land your first job. After that, you are on your own. It is all about who you know, how hard you work and the connections you meet along the way. These are not my words, but the words of lawyers who currently work in the field.

Let me tell you a story. My uncle went to a TTT (tier 3) law school. When he got out, he worked for Legal Aid for several years, but then worked for the Justice Department. When he became chief of the civil rights division, guess who was his deputy? It was a harvard law school grad. He then left the Justice Department and became the Attorney General of Kosovo (he was hired by the United Nations since Kosovo wasn't a free country at this point.) To make a long story short, he loved the job until he received death threats from Serbian nationals and had to have a team of bodyguards to protect him. He left the job in late 2007 and now works for the Australian government in Bangkok, Thailand. He travels all over south-east Asia working with judges and prosecutors on labor trafficking.

So while my uncle didn't go to a Harvard or a Yale, he met people and worked his way up. He told me once he knew a Cornell grad who worked in his office in the Justice Department, but didn't really advance because, for some reason, he didn't have good writing skills. And that's another thing we have to remember: just because you go to a tier 1 law school doesn't mean you are automatically going to be successful. Schools like Berkeley, Columbia, Fordham, W&M, W&L, etc, may open the door for you if you do well, but that's it: you also have to do well in your career, and that may not be the same as being very competitive or just getting great grades. You have to have something else. You have to have that drive and the willingness to work. You have to be a team player who can inspire people and be willing to help them.

To everyone who may not have gotten into the law school of their choice, I say this: don't let anyone tell you that you can't do what you want to do just because you go to a tier 2, tier 3 or tier 4 law school With hard work, perserverence and a little bit of luck, anything is really possible. But, to earn it, you are going to have to work for it. If the opportunities aren't there, that may mean transferring by being at the top of your class. However, at the same time, just being middle of the pack at a great law school may not be so good for you, either.

And again, it also depends on what you want to do and what field you want to get into. Some fields in law don't care about the grades you got OR the law school you went to. The only way the rankings really come into the play is if you want to work for a Bigfirm in NYC or another metropolitan area. Again, this type of work isn't for everybody.

This cycle was extremely competitive. There will, unfortunately, be people who will not be able to get into law school this year. A lot of people I know are in this category right now. If this happens to you, it does not mean you aren't qualified to practice law. Maybe--just maybe--this is a blessing in disguise. Take a year off and truly think about what you want to do. If you still want to do law, then apply again next year. Think about re-taking the LSAT, however, this may or may not be a viable option for you. If you were scoring high on practice tests, then I would say to take it again. Unfortunately, for better or for worse, the LSAT is important. I hear lawyers bemoan how the LSAT does not judge anything (your law competence, your law school performance, etc.) While this may be true, the unfortunate aspect of this is that the importance of the test for law school admissions probably won't change anytime soon. So, if you want to beat it, you really need something valuable that law schools can look at. Scrutinize your application. Make sure your resume stands out. As an example, I have my resume posted in my 'extracurricular acitivites' area. This was the same one I sent to the law schools. And a lot of my background has been through hard work, keeping an open mind, looking for opportunities and above all, getting involved. It is something that lawyers do all the time.

I will end with this: entering law school is the first leg of our journey. I wish everyone the best of luck in their future law school success. And who knows, maybe one day I will see you in the field. No matter what happens, I hope that you become extremely successful in whatever field you decide to pursue, whether it be in law or elsewhere. I hope your dreams really do come true.

Take care.

Visitor Comments

  • Thanks!
  • Saturday, November 15 2008 at 12:12 PM

Thank you for your comment, and congrats on your acceptance! That's pretty amazing!

- blueskies6
  • Saturday, November 15 2008 at 12:17 PM

do you have any work experience, or are you still an undergrad?

- cornelltarzan
  • Sneak peek
  • Saturday, November 15 2008 at 12:25 PM

If you really want to help your audience out, you should give a sneak peak into your unique extras so that we can determine if we are unique enough.

- araiza99
  • Saturday, November 15 2008 at 04:45 PM

Good luck to you as well!

- billp
  • Congrats!
  • Saturday, November 15 2008 at 05:38 PM

I'm in at WM too! I was a little surprised at the quick response! congrats!

- hokie28
  • Congrats
  • Sunday, November 16 2008 at 03:33 AM

Thanks! And congrats on W&M - wow!

- 30rockgrl
  • Monday, November 17 2008 at 04:37 AM

Congrats on W&M - We have similar numbers, and I also did not do well on my SATs, so knew my weakest link would be my LSAT. Best of luck.

- sarbear
  • Tuesday, November 18 2008 at 10:43 PM

thanks- good luck to you, too! and congrats on W&M! the first one's awesome, isn't it?

- SouthernElle
  • Congrats on W&M
  • Thursday, November 20 2008 at 09:53 AM

Pretty awesome dude. Weren't they like the first law school in the nation? :)

- OperationAwesome
  • follow-up
  • Thursday, November 20 2008 at 09:57 AM

WOW just looked at your numbers. SUPER congrats on W&M. That's astonishing. You must have a great story to tell. Plus your GPA at a very strong SUNY didn't hurt I bet. CONGRATS!!!

- OperationAwesome
  • Congrats!!
  • Thursday, November 20 2008 at 04:59 PM

Great job on the acceptance into William and Marry!!!

- cmintz001
  • good stuff
  • Monday, November 24 2008 at 06:53 AM

i too am applying to top schools with a low LSAT. good luck this cycle, i will be following your returns

- Geoff2o0o
  • Thursday, November 27 2008 at 02:01 PM

Congrats at getting in W&M! That's one of my top out-of-state choices. I'm surprised at the relative rapidity of the decision... something made them decided quickly :)

- shinichi
  • Thursday, November 27 2008 at 02:10 PM

i just realized our index numbers are really similar, save for a few schools that weigh GPA more. Hopefully I can get in W&M too :)

- shinichi
  • Thursday, November 27 2008 at 03:22 PM

Just wanted to wish you much luck with your cycle! We have similar issues with the LSAT! Major congrats on WM! And I agree that the LSAT is NOT the most important factor.

- UNChopeful
  • Congrats
  • Friday, November 28 2008 at 12:36 PM

Have you visited W&M? If so, what did you think? Have you visited any other school, and which ones left the best impression on you so far?

- TH0409
  • Thursday, December 04 2008 at 04:26 PM

Good luck on the interview....

- MissLaw87
  • Georgetown
  • Friday, December 05 2008 at 06:07 AM

I too got the dreaded thin envelope...that's okay though my mother reminded me how I rejected Georgetown for undergrad. Good luck on your phone call with UVA! :-)

- B5A2D1
  • Friday, December 05 2008 at 10:07 AM

Your GPA is very impressive. I also have issues on standardized tests, so the LSAT was my weakest link. I'm hoping my personal statement and everything will be good enough to get into a decent school. That's great you were accepted to W&M! Is that your top choice?

- tua05057
  • Friday, December 05 2008 at 12:04 PM

Thank you and good luck! I also added addendums explaining my scores w/ ACT and GRE scores :)

- Blessed09
  • Friday, December 05 2008 at 02:53 PM

Thanks! Good luck to you too, although it seems like you already have a good amount of it (or maybe something better). Congrats on UVA! Barring anything else, are you considering W&M at all?

- shinichi
  • Thank you
  • Sunday, December 07 2008 at 06:53 AM

For the encouraging comments. We are very similar! Congrats on the WL at UVA (me too)! I wanted to do TFA since my second year of UG but like you, I knew I wanted to go to law shool more! Congrats on W&M!!! Which school is your top choice? I'll be pulling for you!

- starrykc16
  • sheepbrain
  • Tuesday, December 09 2008 at 07:41 AM

Hey man, congrats. i am very happy for you. i have a similar story for my standardized exams (wrote an addendum illustrating the relationship) and am hoping my unique softs, gpa, and work experience get me through. best of luck to you.

- sheepbrain
  • Thursday, December 11 2008 at 09:42 AM

congrats to you!! best of luck with UVA. i have the opposite split (abysmal gpa, decent lsat) so for both our sakes, i'm glad to see at least some schools look at the whole person.

- nichca3
  • Inspiration
  • Friday, December 12 2008 at 03:56 AM

You are truly an inspiration. Best of luck and you're already at a great school.

- starrykc16
  • Friday, December 12 2008 at 11:40 AM

press on!!!

- stitch
  • Saturday, December 13 2008 at 08:45 AM

Hey, well done on the acceptances and I took your kind words to heart. Good luck on the rest of the law schools!

- timmybb13
  • Sunday, December 14 2008 at 04:00 AM

Keep Hope Alive! I truly wish you the best of luck! All things are possible through a deep rooted faith. We have similar numbers...keep it up! How did you hear from Cornell so quickly? Were you an EA applicant?

- fergi85
  • touche
  • Monday, December 15 2008 at 11:58 AM

great words of encouragement! thanks.. think we all need it

- soldiva
  • Wednesday, December 17 2008 at 04:49 AM

It's your words rather than admission of W&M inspiring me.

- halley
  • Congrats!
  • Wednesday, December 17 2008 at 08:46 AM

Congrats on W&M. good luck with the rest of your cycle!

- someonesecret
  • Thanks for the pep talk
  • Thursday, December 18 2008 at 09:36 PM

Thanks for the encouraging words, community is important and hopefully when I get to whatever law school I'm going to there will be more of the attitude you have displayed =) Good luck!

- Davishopeful
  • Sunday, December 21 2008 at 09:19 PM

congrats on w&m! and being WL'ed at uva! i'm definitely applying to many reach schools and have a sucky LSAT... testing out whether i can get in this cycle or will inevitably have to retake the lsat... best of luck to you! thanks for your super informative post and hopefully we'll both be hearing some great news! fingers crossed

- simplybomi
  • congrats on w&m!
  • Wednesday, December 24 2008 at 08:17 AM

They are definitly one of my top choices (if they'll take me!) and it's helpful to know that while my numbers do not necessarily match their medians, my (I hope) strong soft factors and an addendum on a very poor junior year might make a difference. I hope you have the chance to decide between UVA and W&M!

- ohiogal
  • Sunday, January 04 2009 at 09:34 AM

When you applied to William and Mary did you submit the optional essays?

- lakerjp
  • CONGRATS
  • Tuesday, January 13 2009 at 12:16 PM

on graduating and w&m, hope you're enjoying thailand! also congrats on the wl for uva..wait that baby as long as possible! i'm to afraid to apply to uva, but i'm sincerely holding and hoping that w&m accepts me too b/c my #s aren't the best. good luck with the rest of your cycle!

- IheartDior
  • Hey You
  • Friday, January 30 2009 at 06:38 AM

Hope all is well and that you are still hanging in there. Regardless of what happens, you are STILL in an awesome school so again, congrats on that. Maybe UVA will bless us both with an acceptance soon!

- starrykc16
  • Your Profile
  • Saturday, February 07 2009 at 11:28 AM

Hey, I have been following your profile with great interest. It is amazing that you got in to William and Mary despite having a low LSAT score. Now, I am confused; you got into William and Mary when most individuals with an LSAT that low would be auto-reject. What set you apart from the run of the mill applicant? I go to William and Mary undergrad, and I will be happy to answer questions about the surrounding area, etc. Just email me any questions.

- Patrick
  • Congrats
  • Sunday, February 15 2009 at 05:14 AM

Congrats on W&M. I am sending in my app Monday. This cycle is killing me.

- itspaulm
  • Saturday, February 21 2009 at 07:20 PM

Thank you! Your comment is great. However, I still think you should retake LSAT. Because of your LSAT, Sometimes your application can be rejected by admission staffs before it was referred to admission committee who might pay attention to your great softs.

- halley
  • Monday, February 23 2009 at 05:41 PM

Congrats on W&M! I'm very impressed with your positive attitude throughout this cycle. I've been having trouble keeping a smile on my face, but reading your profile gives me hope. What do you think helped you stand out in your application? Again, congrats and good luck on the rest of your cycle!!

- wishinghard
  • Hope!
  • Thursday, February 26 2009 at 09:07 AM

I just want to say that you getting into William & Mary has given me hope. I have a very similar situation where I have a very unique background and a high GPA but a low LSAT. I would be very happy getting accepted to William & Mary. One thing I would have done differently is apply a lot sooner. Well best of luck and I can't wait to see how it turns out for you.

- tommyg0929
  • Congrats
  • Saturday, March 28 2009 at 11:07 AM

whether or not they offer you a seat, great job on virginia.

- nevird
  • Sunday, April 12 2009 at 08:07 PM

Congrats on your acceptances! Also, I was wondering if I could ask you a question...When did you apply and hear a response back from St. John's?

- elle2427
  • all the best
  • Tuesday, April 14 2009 at 04:43 PM

all the best my friend. from a 148 lsat to a top 25 school!

- simply brilliant
  • Monday, April 20 2009 at 02:28 PM

I am really starting to get worried...I thought that NYLS would have been an easy in...I don't hold much hope for my last two applications...

- elle2427
  • good luck!
  • Thursday, April 23 2009 at 01:12 PM

So I'm glad that someone else with a less than stellar GPA is still hanging on at UVA. Best of luck, hope you get good news from them soon!

- alkalinekerry
  • oops
  • Thursday, April 23 2009 at 01:14 PM

scratch that, less than stellar LSAT...whoops

- alkalinekerry
  • hey
  • Wednesday, April 29 2009 at 10:34 AM

I haven't decided where I want to go yet, but I will know by Thursday night! I'm thinking about going into International Law, how about you? Even if you don't get in UVA, congrats on getting waitlisted to begin with and William and Mary is a great school!

- alkalinekerry
  • Thursday, May 07 2009 at 04:28 PM

Congratulations on William Mary. You definitely proved that it's not all about the LSAT.

- swmontgomery
  • congrats
  • Friday, May 15 2009 at 03:26 PM

i'm proud of you. this is inspiring. just promise you won't live up to your username!

- calfan0785
  • questions
  • Wednesday, May 27 2009 at 08:55 AM

Hey Lazylawyer312, I just finished looking through your profile and dude, I am so impressed. You know, I had the same thing happen to me with the SAT. I didn't even break 1,000 and I did very well in college. College board said they couldn't locate my scores. I am now wondering what I should do, but I did want to submit an addendum.

- Nadia
  • scholarship
  • Monday, June 01 2009 at 02:57 PM

Hey, how did you get money from your undergraduate institution to attend law school? thats pretty cool!

- lawschoolgirl123
  • Best of Luck to you...
  • Tuesday, June 02 2009 at 05:53 AM

I am confident that you will be a "success" as your positive attitude is half the battle. Blessings and Peace...

- aha949
  • Congrats!
  • Tuesday, July 14 2009 at 11:27 PM

Hey, just wanted to say that I found your profile inspirational. I'm not a user on here but saw it a few months ago and was really encouraged that someone else was also fighting an uphill battle during the law school application process and wasn't afraid to reach really far.. glad to see you did well too! And thanks for always being optimistic. Good luck at William and Mary!

- S
  • Thank you everyone
  • Thursday, July 16 2009 at 08:36 AM

Thank you all for your comments! They are all extremely heart-warming, to say the least. Just because I will be going to law school also does not mean I will stop posting. As I have stated on this page, I will make occasional updates from time to time on where I am in school and even with my future career. I want to use this site as a tool to help inspire other like-minded attorney's who also want to get into the field, but may be discouraged due to their low LSAT score or people telling them that the field is "too competitive and they will never make it." Follow your dreams and aspirations. The only one who can ultimately stop you is yourself--no matter what school you ultimately decide to attend.

- lazylawyer312
  • Thursday, August 27 2009 at 11:00 AM

Keep writing about your experiences at William & Mary! I went to William & Mary for a year (then I transferred to UVA), and I really liked it there! Please prove everyone wrong and get good grades, b/c we all know that the LSATs only tests how good of a test taker one is and not one's intelligence! Keep up the good work!

- wahoomb
  • Sunday, October 18 2009 at 04:53 PM

You are amazing. You are such an inspiration. I bombed the LSAT. I did 3 points lower than you, but I m re-taking one more time in December (I'm hoping to improve by at least 6 points) and I will apply the very first week of January 2010 with my new score.

- frozenxthoughts
  • Wow!
  • Monday, October 26 2009 at 08:50 AM

This really is inspiring. I had a mediocre LSAT score and I'm retaking in December. I was flipping out after I got the score and checked out all my top schools' number medians. As white, middle class female, I have to stand on my softs, recs, and personal statements as well. Enjoy W&M and maybe I'll see you there someday!

- lawfish
  • Thanks!
  • Friday, January 29 2010 at 06:48 PM

Your profile is such an inspiration! You're a great writer, thanks for being so open and honest about your cycle.

- holachopper
  • SBU
  • Saturday, May 07 2011 at 05:54 PM

I'm an SBU student too and I got into my top choice law school with a low LSAT score. Your profile has inspired so many people. Feel free to friend me on facebook.

- fingerscrossed0975

You must be logged in to comment. Not a registered user?
Sign up now

Closebtn

Add Application

Choose a School*