Indy (2022-2023)

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Application Information

F - Fee Waiver A - Attending W - Withdrawn D - Deferred
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# Law School Status Type $$$ Sent Received Complete Interview Date Decision Updated
Brigham Young University F Accepted W Type: RA $30,000 Sent: 11/10/10 Rec: 11/11/10 Comp: 11/16/10 Inter: -- Dec: 01/05/11 Upd: 11 years
University of Chicago F Accepted A Type: RA $166,000 Sent: 11/04/10 Rec: 11/05/10 Comp: 11/16/10 Inter: -- Dec: 01/10/11 Upd: 12 years
Columbia University Accepted W Type: RA $30,000 Sent: 11/02/10 Rec: 11/03/10 Comp: 11/29/10 Inter: -- Dec: 02/03/11 Upd: 13 years
University of Michigan Ann Arbor F Waitlisted W Type: RA Sent: 11/04/10 Rec: 11/12/10 Comp: 11/24/10 Inter: -- Dec: 02/25/11 Upd: 13 years
New York University F Accepted W Type: RA Sent: 11/04/10 Rec: 11/09/10 Comp: 11/17/10 Inter: -- Dec: 02/14/11 Upd: 13 years
Washington University in St Louis F Accepted W Type: RA $135,000 Sent: 12/09/10 Rec: 12/09/10 Comp: 12/13/10 Inter: -- Dec: 12/27/10 Upd: 13 years
University of Pennsylvania F Accepted W Type: RA $75,000 Sent: 11/10/10 Rec: 11/11/10 Comp: 11/12/10 Inter: -- Dec: 12/20/10 Upd: 13 years
University of Virginia F Accepted W Type: RA $105,000 Sent: 11/04/10 Rec: 11/09/10 Comp: 11/30/10 Inter: -- Dec: 12/20/10 Upd: 13 years
Duke University F Accepted W Type: RA $75,000 Sent: 11/10/10 Rec: 11/11/10 Comp: 11/20/10 Inter: -- Dec: 12/21/10 Upd: 13 years
Georgetown University F Accepted W Type: RA Sent: 11/04/10 Rec: 11/05/10 Comp: 11/29/10 Inter: -- Dec: 11/29/10 Upd: 13 years
Stanford University Waitlisted Type: RA Sent: 11/11/10 Rec: 11/12/10 Comp: 11/17/10 Inter: -- Dec: 04/25/11 Upd: 13 years
Harvard University Rejected Type: RA Sent: 11/02/10 Rec: 11/03/10 Comp: 11/18/10 Inter: -- Dec: 01/07/11 Upd: 13 years

Applicant Information

  • LSAT: 172
  • LSAT 2: 172
  • LSAT 3: -
  • GRE : -
  • LSAC GPA: 3.88
  • Degree GPA: 3.95
  • School Type: Large Private
  • Major: Philosophy

Demographic Information

  • City: Western
  • State: -
  • Race: White
  • Gender: Man
  • Non-Traditional Applicant: Yes
  • Years out of Undergrad: In Undergrad

Extra Curricular Information

Decent softs and some work experience through my university. A dean of one school congratulated me on having excellent letters of recommendation, all three of which were written by professors in my department.

I took the LSAT twice.
June '10: 167
October '10: 172

A note about my LSAT scores:
I never scored above a 172 on a full practice test, although I quit taking full practice tests maybe 3 weeks before the June test and was getting perfect scores on individual sections of any type routinely. Come June test day, I was ill and pulled off what I thought going into the test would be my lowest possible score. Six weeks later, I decided to take a full timed practice test and scored a 172. I concluded to retake in October, particularly since I had not looked at any LSAT materials in those six weeks. Between the June test and the October test I took maybe 3 full practice tests and studied very little. Retaking the LSAT was a one of the best decisions I made during this cycle. My first ever practice LSAT score was probably a 157 (or somewhere nearby).

A note about an inconsequential change in my GPA:
On the 29th of December, I received my Fall 2010 grades and on the same day I sent an updated transcript to the schools I had not yet heard from. My GPA above is taken from this updated transcript. Prior to the 29th of December, my LSDAS GPA was 3.87 and my University GPA was 3.94. It probably doesn't make a difference, but I figured I would note it anyways.

All scholarship amounts listed above are over a three year period.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some thoughts about my cycle:

1. Continually inform schools of your new offers, if those offers are persuasive to you.
I have heard some say, effectively, "well, I've already asked about money, and they said no." I found that schools were interested in each new persuasive offer that I received because they took as much interest in me as did their peers. If a school really wants you, they will fight for you. This may come in the form of money, or perhaps some other form. Whatever the case, it is in your best interest, and seems only fair to the schools you are applying to, to allow them to know the moves of their peers so they can plan moves of their own. The key component here is "if those offers are persuasive TO YOU." If you worry that an offer from a lower ranked school will be meaningless to that top 16 school, but it nevertheless is persuasive to you, tell them about it anyways, but be sure to detail precisely why the offer is persuasive. If you are successful, you will paint a better picture of yourself to the financial aid office. Perhaps something you say will convince them that you are the candidate they are looking for; and when this happens, there is no telling what they will do.

2. Make demands of your own.
I told several schools that while I was honored to be admitted, financial considerations were such that I simply could not commit myself to the debt I would amass at their school. I then made specific requests for specific amounts of money, detailing why I felt the amount was appropriate. I believe this approach is at least partly responsible for my having received the Rubenstein at the University of Chicago.

3. Play your cards close.
Don't reveal too much about your plans, thoughts, or feelings. Always be honest, but realize that you never know how things will change before you send in that final seat deposit. You will want to leave your options open.

4. Always make good impressions.
Whenever you interact with anybody from the school, they will be evaluating you. Each interaction, from phone calls to Admitted Students Weekend, will make an impression on those who will decide how much money to ultimately give you. Four different schools increased their original offers to me, with at least three of those increases occurring after significant interaction with the school.

Additional info & updates

About the Rubenstein:

Chicago informed me that the Rubenstein would consist of:
1. A full tuition scholarship
2. A personal faculty mentor
3. Special programming for Rubenstein recipients
4. A $10,000 a year stipend (this was announced later in the year)

While the money is fairly straight forward, the value of items 2 and 3 are much more difficult to judge. I have heard that while some schools advertise similar benefits to their named scholarships, they don't provide much value to the education for whatever reason. Because of this, I intend to keep some small record of what the Rubenstein really means. Hopefully someone will find it helpful.

1. No difficulties with the full tuition scholarship. Tuition billed, and tuition paid in full. A wonderful thing. In addition, the stipend has been awesome! I'm fairly certain I will graduate without any debt at all - maybe even with a fair amount of money in the bank depending on what sort of job I get my 1L summer.

2. The faculty mentors seem to initiate some contact but there doesn't seem to be any sort of comprehensive "plan" here. However, they are certainly accessible and it seems up to the individual to take advantage of the ready-made relationship. Some are doing well at this, others, not as much. Moving in to the second year, I know some have not had any significant interaction with their mentors ever.

3. We are told the special programming will consist at least of once-a-quarter dinners at fancy places with just the Rubenstein Scholars and special guests. It seems we might expand to do more, but it's not clear at this time.

Dinners so far:
1. Three prior U.S. Supreme Court clerks and the Deputy Dean
2. David Rubenstein himself, with the Dean, Deputy Dean, and Dean of Admissions
3. Dinner for spouses at the on-campus art museum with a private tour - lots of deans in attendance, but nobody from outside of the school.
4. Former US Attorney for Northern District of Illinois

Personal thoughts on the Rubenstein:
With the $10,000 stipend some people think they will graduate without any debt at all. The dinners provide an interesting opportunity to spend considerable time with the people that run the law school and the Deans know me by name and speak with me in the halls. I know Rubensteins have been to lunch one-on-one with Deans and many of the first year faculty seem to know us before the first day of class. It feels as if lots of opportunities are open to us if we simply assert ourselves. The Rubensteins themselves are interesting people and few, if any, are seen by the other students as "the gunners."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Record of Application Process:
11/01/10 - TONS of hidden application fee waivers! Quite a surprise seeing as the only notification I received about a fee waiver was from Chicago.

12/07/10 - In at Georgetown. A nice personalized, handwritten note from Dean Cornblatt. This is my first acceptance, and it's quite exciting!

12/09/10 - Wrote up a "GPA Addendum" last night and overnighted it to Harvard and Stanford in the hopes that it might push them over the edge since apparently they are in the middle of admitting students right now. In the Addendum I explained that the four classes on my transcript not in the A range were non-substantive classes with teaching approaches that I didn't agree with as a stupid young college student. For good measure, I also sent it to Columbia, University of Chicago, and New York University but did not overnight it.

12/09/10 - Applied to Washington University St. Louis today after they waived my application fee. This will be the last application I submit. I was thinking of applying to Arizona State since I'm from the Phoenix valley, but now that I'm in at Georgetown I've decided against it. Maybe December will bring good news from a few more schools.

12/20/10 - Received a phone call from University of Pennsylvania notifying me of my admittance. Maybe I can secure one or two more Ivy League admissions.

12/20/10 - Received an e-mail requesting that I call Mr. Faulk, Director of Admissions of UVA. I called, and he recognized me immediately. "What will it take to get you to come across the country and join us in Virginia?" Admitting me to his school was a pretty good start, and then he offered me $25,000. "How does that sound?" It sounds pretty good. I'm excited about UVA. We'll have to wait and see what the rest of the cycle brings (the $25,000 is per year).

12/21/10 - Received an e-mail from Duke Law today informing me that I had been admitted. I will receive a packet in the mail which will include a scholarship application and I will be "officially" admitted after the scholarship review process is complete. Regardless, the top of the e-mail says "You're In!" Quite an eventful Christmas week.

12/27/10 - Received an e-mail from Washington University in St. Louis informing me that I had been admitted. I figured I wouldn't hear from anybody this week due to the holidays. Certainly a welcome surprise.

12/29/10 - Received my Fall 2010 grades and notified Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Chicago, Michigan, and NYU (all the schools I haven't heard from). My new GPA is now listed under the "Application Information" above.

1/5/11 - Received an e-mail from BYU asking me to schedule a time for an interview with Dean Hernandez. I met with him on Friday (same day I was rejected by Harvard below), and we spoke for some time. He told me that BYU would love to have me, and that they were offering me a substantial amount of money - a letter received three weeks later confirmed that this amounted to a full tuition scholarship.

1/7/11 - Received an e-mail from Harvard Law School notifying me that I had been denied admission. Somewhat expected at this point, seeing how late it was in the cycle and that no phone interview had taken place. Oh well.

1/10/11 - Received a phone call from Chicago informing me that I had been admitted. I am very, very pleased to have been admitted. Hopefully good news will keep coming from the rest of my schools. Then... I'll need to make some tough decisions.

2/7/11 - Received an e-mail from Washington University in St. Louis awarding me the "Scholar in Law" Award. They say the scholarship is one of the most prestigious offered by the Law School and will provide me $135,000 or full tuition for all three years. Pretty exciting!

2/14/11 - Received an odd yellow letter in the mail today. Certainly a welcome Valentine's Day gift! The letter was signed by the Dean of Admissions at Columbia Law School and informed me that I was admitted to the school. It was postmarked the 3rd of February! Eleven stinking days to travel from New York to Utah... Oh well. At least my next hoped for admittance will be over the phone.

2/17/11 - Received a nice purple letter in the mail today from NYU informing me that I am admitted. I just purchased my tickets for Columbia's admitted student weekend yesterday, and planned on spending a week in New York, so I can easily attend NYU's now also.

2/18/11 - Received my financial aid package from University of Chicago via e-mail. They awarded me a $75,000 scholarship split evenly over three years. Amazing. I am very grateful.

2/25/11 - Received an e-mail from University of Michigan informing me that I had been waitlisted. I've already left a message at the admissions office informing them of my desire to withdraw my application. This came after an e-mail around mid-January vaguely implying that I might consider sending in a letter of continuing interest. This I did, but the letter had little to do with Michigan (because I couldn't really come up with much of a reason why I wanted to attend Michigan in the face of my other options...). I imagine if I had outlined more explicitly why I wanted to attend Michigan, I would have been admitted.

3/5/11 - While in New York for Columbia's Admitted Students Weekend, a letter arrived at my apartment from UVA informing me that they were increasing my awarded amount to $105,000.

4/5/11 - Letter from Columbia offering me a $25,000 grant.

4/7/11 - E-mail from University of Pennsylvania Law School. I have been selected as a James Wilson Scholar, thus providing me $75,000.

4/11/11 - Letter from Duke offering me the Dean's Scholarship in the amount of $75,000.

4/20/11 - Call from Chicago offering me a Rubenstein. This includes full-tuition over three years, a mentor, and "special programming." Incredible.

4/25/11 - Decided to accept the Rubenstein at Chicago. Withdrew from all the other schools to which I had been admitted, in accordance with the details stipulated in the Rubenstein scholarship agreement. Also, Columbia increased their grant from $25,000 to $30,000 shortly before I e-mailed them to inform them I was withdrawing (this increase came after I had petitioned their original decision and was not completely coincidental).

4/26/11 - E-mail from Stanford informing me that I had received a wait-list offer.

Visitor Comments

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Thanks bro...
Friday, October 29 2010 at 08:00 PM

...good luck to you as well. I'm sure your cycle will go very well w/ your combination of LSAT/GPA.

Thank you!
Friday, February 19 2010 at 07:00 PM

Thanks! good luck to you as well. I applied to a bunch of schools, looks like we have quite a few in common. I need to get them up there. What is your top choice school?

Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

Thanks! Good luck to you and congrats on Georgetown!

UVA
Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

I know, it's crazy...I didn't write a Why UVA either. Are you a VA resident at school in Phoenix? I'm currently living here doing TfA. Got to love this winter weather!

Thanks!
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

I'm sure you'll have a great cycle. So far, I'm not sure my softs are really counting for too much since neither UVA nor Berkeley seems interested in biting before xmas, but I guess time will tell. Congrats on your schools so far and good luck with the others.

Thanks!
Thursday, November 11 2010 at 07:00 PM

Congrats on that UVA scholarship that's quite the offer! Hope these upcoming months do us both quite well!

Muchas gracias
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

Yah, I was losing hope on UVA and was really thrilled to get their email and their offer. I'm sorry to hear about H for you, though; that has me pretty nervous. I had figured that applicants like us would have a chance so long as they projected their median GPA to fall slightly from last year's 3.89. I guess they probably aren't predicting that. In any case, I thought we'd at least be riding the WL together through the spring. Anyway, next up Chicago it is...

Chi
Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

Congrats on Chicago!!

Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

I'm waiting on berk, chi, columbia, NYU, and cornell. slow week this week!

Thanks
Friday, October 29 2010 at 08:00 PM

I appreciate the kind words. As far as schools left, I have around 10 more to go. I will be posting the results as they come in and numbers when my cycle is over. Best of luck.

Congrats to you too
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

Glad to see you got Chicago as well -- congrats! It would seem that Columbia should be next, unless Stanford wants to start dipping into the sub-3.9 GPAs soon and scoop us up :P

Wednesday, September 15 2010 at 08:00 PM

Yep, good luck with Columbia! Either way you've got great options :) I'm a little partial to UVA, congrats on the $$!

thanks!
Wednesday, February 20 2008 at 07:00 PM

best of luck to you as well :D

Columbia
Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

I would love the acceptance to Columbia, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. Truth be told, I'm doing breathing exercises over here..

Thanks for the kind words! :)
Friday, February 26 2010 at 07:00 PM

Looks like you've got some great options lined up, as well! All the best!

hope so...
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

certainly seems like people are getting the envelopes. I have columbia using my parents' mailing address in upstate ny but so far I haven't gotten a packet. At this point, however, the gigantic gaps in LSN of people who should be auto admits is keeping my hope alive though. I'm hoping we'll both hear by early next week...

Saturday, September 18 2010 at 08:00 PM

Yeah, it's nice to see another BYU admitee (I guess I'm making up words now). Good luck with those top schools you have left to hear from and grats on the success so far. Does BYU have a shot of getting you, or did you apply there for an extra option?

Our VCEs
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

Are obviously lost in the mail... :P

Columbia
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

They obviously sense that us 172/3.88ers are on the fast track to Stanford :P

columbia
Wednesday, February 20 2008 at 07:00 PM

thanks :D i'm sending you good vibes so you'll hear soon as well!

Thanks!
Tuesday, January 11 2011 at 07:00 PM

Congrats on all your acceptances so far, especially Chicago and UVA scholarship! Are you planning on going to the UVA admitted students open house?

Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

Yah, it wasn't the best week, but all-in-all, it so bad. I've been pretty open on here and I'm sure I'm easily identifiable to adcoms if they cared, so I don't want to show all my cards as to preferences; however, I'll definitely be riding out the Harvard and Columbia holds while scoping out scholarships elsewhere. UVA has been incredible in reaching out to me and Chicago is a great school, so I wouldn't be too heart broken if my cycle ended here. I hope you have better luck at Columbia and Stanford than I did in the coming weeks! I think the contrast in our cycles shows pretty clearly that, at least on some level, adcoms at different schools have different priorities beyond numbers.

*
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

*not so bad. :P

Chicago
Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

Thanks!! I am so excited. I think they have a TfA scholly too...so them offering me money would really, really make it enticing. My family wants me to stay closer to home (go with Penn/UVA), but it's Chicago! Where are you leaning? I can't believe you haven't heard a peep from Columbia!

Congrats on Columbia!
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

Nice to see you get the nod! It's interesting how our cycles are playing out and I'm glad to have you to compare notes with. Best of luck at Stanford while I draft up my Columbia and Harvard LOCIs :P

Thanks
Tuesday, January 11 2011 at 07:00 PM

and congrats on Columbia!! I'm not 100% set on Chicago, although it's still my top. I'm visiting UVA in March, so we'll see how it feels and go from there.

Congrats!
Monday, November 22 2010 at 07:00 PM

On the fantastic cycle in general. Where are you leaning?

Thanks
Sunday, November 28 2010 at 07:00 PM

Thanks! it sounds like you're in a really good spot. I actually am holding out for the last few ones before i make my decision. good luck on Columbia!

NYU/Col
Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

congrats on Columbia and NYU too! About time NYU got back to you... I keep wondering if they decided not to take me because of my first score (163). It's strange to me not to have NYC on the table, but I'm not sure if it would make a difference if I did... I'm hoping to go to Chi ASW, but man flights from Phoenix are expensive! Hopefully I can get their $200 stipend. Good luck on Stanford!!

chi
Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

At 75k a Chicago!!!

Number 1?
Monday, November 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

With deadlines fast approaching, have you narrowed your choices down? You have some great options--congratulations!

Wednesday, September 15 2010 at 08:00 PM

Thanks! You have a really tough choice to make- any thoughts?

Congrats on the Rubenstein!
Thursday, October 28 2010 at 08:00 PM

Looks like you ended up as the cycle winner :P Chicago was loathe to even bump me up to my final offer of 69k; you must have had one hell of an app!

Chi
Friday, October 01 2010 at 08:00 PM

Yes, they upped it from 60k :):) Congrats on the Ruby! That's an incredible deal! Did you try to negotiate or did they just send it out?

Congratulations sir!
Saturday, January 22 2011 at 07:00 PM

Just wanted to congratulate you on your amazing offer at Chicago and for your contributions on TLS. Best of luck to you!