BlackCobra122 (2022-2023)

Views: 10196 User Since: 12/06/06

Application Information

F - Fee Waiver A - Attending W - Withdrawn D - Deferred
Please Wait...
# Law School Status Type $$$ Sent Received Complete Interview Date Decision Updated
Harvard University Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Stanford University Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Washington and Lee University Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Georgetown University WL, Accepted A Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Columbia University Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Fordham University Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
College of William and Mary Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Boston University Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Boston College Accepted W Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
Yale University Pending Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years
University of Michigan Ann Arbor Rejected Type: RA Sent: -- Rec: -- Comp: -- Inter: -- Dec: -- Upd: 17 years

Applicant Information

  • LSAT: 163
  • LSAT 2: 167
  • LSAT 3: -
  • GRE : -
  • LSAC GPA: 3.53
  • Degree GPA: -
  • School Type: -
  • Major: Political Science

Demographic Information

  • City: Bronx
  • State: New York
  • Race: African-American
  • Gender: Man
  • Under Represented Minority: Yes
  • Non-Traditional Applicant: Yes
  • Years out of Undergrad: -

Extra Curricular Information

College Republicans, Poli Sci Honor Society, Columnist for Student Paper, internship in a private law firm, etc.

Good recommendations, worked on the personal statement for a long time.

Additional info & updates

In case anyone is wondering, I applied to Harvard, Yale, Columbia and Stanford just to make a statement. I may or may not have a shot at them. Given my numbers, I certainly shouldn't have a shot at them, but those were the only three schools that I chose to tell that I am African-American. In addition, I reframed my personal statement to include comments about my reflections as a black man etc. (whereas in the others I did not). This was a simple experiment. I told myself that, no matter what happens, I will only accept an offer from a school that does not know my ethnic background....because, as you can tell, I am firmly opposed to affirmative action for a variety of reasons.

1) I can succeed on my own, thank you very much 2) with AA, I would never know what I could have accomplished on my own 3) I recognize that most white who are disadvantaged by this system do not come from a line of slaveowners, nor do they actively participate in racial discrimination.

Others can feel free to disagree with me, as they have all my life. Some people might think I'm crazy for not accepting a place in a top law school if I get accepted, but I'm confident that I will get into a very good school on my own merit. Is that so crazy?
Excited about W&M! They usually take the average score, I think, so that was good news.

Surprised that I got on the W/L at Gtown. I'm going to do everything I can to reaffirm my interest in the coming months...

Fordham! I think I'd take Fordham over W&M right now, just because it's closer to home. I am very relieved, because at least now, I KNOW that I will be going to a decent law school regardless.

Rejected at surprise. Can't help but wonder what would have happened if I had discussed my race...

Good news from VA!

They're coming in fast now...good news from BU as well. I have to do some more research (etc), but I feel like it's between BU/Fordham at this point.

Wow! Just got "the call" from TStock at the end of last week. I think it went ok...but who knows? Hmm...Part of me hopes I don't get in because either A) i'll end up a hypocrite or B) it will be agonizing not to accept that offer.

Just offered about 9K/year at W+L. Perhaps VA isn't out of the question. The plot thickens...

HARVARD!! In spite of still is a lot to take in. HLS sounds so sweet...but then I start to feel conflicted...

Well everyone I've decided one thing: there will be plenty of time to feel conflicted in April. Right now, I'm going out to party!

I appreciate the nod, Columbia. Kinda expected it after HLS, but still cool!

Despite HLS, I still thought I'd get waitlisted at Stanford...just complicates my decision further. Might sound crazy but I think I'm happier about getting in to BC than Stanford!

GEORGETOWN!! Holy shit, this is DEFINITELY better than Stanford or even HLS. Call me crazy or whatever you want...but I've already visited Gtown and I loved it. It's a great school, and I got in on my own merits. I will be withdrawing from all other institutions.

As a sidenote, I'm kind of expecting a rejection/WL from Yale, but it doesn't matter at this point. Thanks to all of those who have been providing words of encouragement throughout the process...and I appreciate the respectful disagreements as well. Maybe I will end up writing about this whole experience some day? Who knows. But right now I can't imagine anyone more excited about starting law school, as strange as that may sound.

Visitor Comments

You must be logged in to comment.
Not a registered user? Sign up now .
Thursday, November 30 2006 at 07:00 PM

You are the greatest. Not only do we have identical stats, but similar ECs. I give you MAD props for your creative experiment and your convictions. Perhaps we will end up at the same school. All the best of luck to you.

W&M, etc
Monday, October 23 2006 at 08:00 PM

Congrats on W&M!! I'll admit, I'm insanely jealous as I'm waiting to hear from them myself, but I'm happy for those who do have the good news! Also, I truly admire your views and that you're sticking to them. Not many would sacrifice a possible leg-up in the system in order to stay true to themselves. That's awesome, and I wish you good luck!

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

for the encouragement. I'm keeping my fingers crossed over the next few weeks...maybe I'll get an early Christmas present, who knows? Good luck to you all.

Re: impressed
Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Michigan is Top 10, Georgetown is Top 15. I didn't submit my race in either, and I would love to go to either of those 2 schools. We'll see...

Sunday, March 19 2006 at 07:00 PM

Wow. I'm not an URM, and I tell myself that if I was, I would do exactly what you are doing. But after some more careful thought, I'm not sure I would be principled enough to carry through with it. Props to you for being so convicted. I hope / suspect you'll get into a great school anyways.

Wednesday, June 28 2006 at 08:00 PM

Wow, it takes guts to turn down a top school if you get in. You are awesome man. While I am personally as firmly opposed to racial preferences as you are, I would never blame a minority for it since it is the admissions system that is corrupt and not the applicants. I am a fellow Republican from an economically disadvantaged background so I am a fellow rebel as well in the political sense. Best of luck to you on all your school'll make an awesome lawyer...I can sense it. Felix

LSAT etc.
Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Didn't do much to bring up the LSAT. I'd say I studied about the same amount each time...but I was averaging in the mid-160s and I just didnt perform up to par on the first test. I think it's BS in as much as law schools put so much emphasis on a 3-5 point difference when most applicants could swing 7 or 8 points from day to day....And I appreciate the support Penn/Van Wilder. Part of the reason why I posted this on LSN was to give myself more inspiration to stick with my convictions.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Greenb24-- I'm impressed with your ability to use such a descriptive adjective ("lifeless") to characterize my optional essay without having read it. FYI, I wrote the UMich diversity essay about a service project I took part in, which involved working with leprosy patients in Ecuador. I didn't think it was too bad, but something tells me that if I had written about an experience involving white racism it might have been just enough to get me in. Who knows. Onyiilove--Two things. is very easy to rationalize something that benefits one to a great extent; however, accepting a principle that does not help (or even hurts) one's position demonstrates the strength of that person's convictions. Also, I am not necessarily opposed to your statement regarding adversity. If an individual can prove that he had tremendous setbacks (financial and otherwise) that may have kept him from achieving his true potential, then I believe the adcom's should take that into consideration. Race, however, does not have to come into the picture. I, for one, have been blessed to live in a financially stable household with two parents who care about me. Many other blacks (benefiting from AA) are in similar situations, and certainly many whites are not.... Thanks for providing respectful criticisms though--they're always welcome.

Good one
Sunday, December 24 2006 at 07:00 PM

Your little experiment is f-ing hilarious! I have one particular school in mind, that if I am accepted, I am going to send them a little return hate mail. Not the same, but childishly gratifying, nonetheless.

Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM


Sorry about the above
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

My logger name is "miracle".

Friday, September 01 2006 at 08:00 PM

I find it hard to believe that you were rejected at Mich--not because of your experiment, but because no one else has been rejected so far. Good luck with the rest of your apps and your experiement.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

I sent in my apps pretty early (end of Sept/ beginning of Oct for most)...and I called Mich for an update on 12/18. They said the committee had reached a decision and would be sending a letter shortly. I asked if I could receive the decision verbally. I felt like it was 50/50 with Mich, maybe even a little it goes.

Sunday, October 22 2006 at 08:00 PM

i admire your experiment and your stance. i hope you get into a great school nonetheless.

Sunday, November 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Hey, Can you list your high score on the LSAT instead of an average? It will be more helpful for calculating index scores that way, since most schools take the high score.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

uart-- I suppose you make a good point. I just put the average because that's what the site asked for...but the recent changes make that a moot point. Ultra-- I think I'd do fine at HYCS...and so would a thousand other applicants who won't be admitted to those schools. The reasoning behind my position is that I want to get into a school on my own merit, without using my race as a crutch. I have already been accepted to several good law schools, without bringing race into the picture. I am confident that I will perform well at any of these schools...If I am in the top 10% of my class in BU or Fordham, I'll be all set regardless. I am confident in my ability, but it's my dignity that I'm worried about. Many other black applicants don't have that I'm a bit eccentric in that regard. I just don't want to be sitting in a classroom next year wondering whether I would have been in that class if I wasn't black. That's a sense of doubt that I would carry with me forever, and it's something I want to avoid.

Thursday, October 19 2006 at 08:00 PM

I find myself consistently checking your profile for updates, so I thought I ought to chip in my .02. I love your experiment, but I wonder if something is missing. Shouldn't you have applied to one of your Big 4(or added NYU perhaps) without including your URM status? I understand you're a reach at those schools minus that factor, based solely on #s, but some manner of control would have helped. Minus that, its clear you're predicting an outcome and leaving no room for a school at that level to prove you wrong. I know you've addressed this before, with Mich and GU, but there is a difference in selectivity. That said, I love your stance and I wish you the best at whichever school is lucky enough to get you.

A good point, and a misinterpretation
Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Wanderer-- perhaps you're right about whether I should have applied to a top five without disclosing my race. However, I view Gtown as my reach, and I'd love to go there, especially considering my interest in politics etc. I will do everything I can to get off their (preferred) waitlist. Anonymous user-- you misinterpreted what I wrote. I wasnt implying that other black applicants lack dignity...I was saying they have different beliefs than I do, and because of those beliefs, they would not feel hypocritical to benefit from AA. Considering my beliefs, though, I would be a hypocrite to do so.

Another Question
Wednesday, April 26 2006 at 08:00 PM

"In case anyone is wondering, I applied to Harvard, Yale, Columbia and Stanford just to make a statement. I may or may not have a shot at them. Given my numbers, I certainly shouldn't have a shot at them, but those were the only three schools that I chose to tell that I am African-American." -Dude, you are assuming that your "numbers" dictate how qualified you are as a student. That may not be the case...Simply because someone receives a 170 on the LSAT does not mean that they are more qualified as a law student. It might be the case that this person is a phenomenal test taker. Again, your experiment is greatly flawed. And, you are basing your conclusions on assumptions that are questionable.

Re: another question
Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

While LSAT/GPA are not the "be all and end all" of law school admissions, they do play an incredibly significant role. I have done enough research to know what schools to apply to, and UMich and Georgetown are my reaches. You may be right-- I might have a 1 in 1000 shot at HYCS (without disclosing), but I'd rather spend my time and my money trying to get into a top 25 that is a good fit for me. I appreciate the optimism, though, and good luck in the 06-07 cycle.

re: re: another question
Wednesday, April 26 2006 at 08:00 PM

"but I'd rather spend my time and my money trying to get into a top 25 that is a good fit for me. I appreciate the optimism, though, and good luck in the 06-07 cycle." By good fit, do you mean a school that accepts you because of your numbers, and not (potentially) because you are black? If so, then you are presupposing that if you get in because of your numbers, then it will be a better fit. I don't think that is your logic because it does not follow. Could it not be the case that HYCS are great fits for you, despite the fact that your race may have played a role? Nevertheless, Where's the optimism my friend? I'm just trying to understand your reasoning...You are still basing your conclusions on assumptions that are questionable. Yet, you seem to accept them as full proof. Anyway, good luck with the 06-07 cycle.

Tuesday, August 15 2006 at 08:00 PM

You mention "reaffirm my interest" with Georgetown. Exactly what do you mean? I'd like to do the same with one or two of my reach schools, anything to let them know of my desire. Thanks.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Terrapin: I am sending LSAC my updated transcript and having that forwarded to Gtown. Also, I asked someone else to write me a new letter of rec, specifically targeted to Georgetown. Lastly, I am planning on sending them a short letter explaining why I think I deserve to get off the waitlist (why my career goals would be best served at Gtown). Hard to know whether it will make a difference, but it can't hurt.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

I already discussed this a few posts ago but of my friends was also rejected by Mich rather early in the cycle (he had lower #s too), You're skeptical of the fact that Michigan has issued any rejections at this point? 1) LSN isn't a very large "n" to judge Mich's applicant pool and 2) Mich would be one of about 5 schools in country that hasn't rejected anyone at this point. But I'm done explaining. Believe what you want.

Antitrust or Securities
Monday, January 15 2007 at 07:00 PM

Congratulations on your acceptance at those great schools. I respect but disagree with your feelings regarding AA. As controversial as it is, it s the schools who obviously value it and believe in it and it truly has welcomed diversity. At any rate, do you or anyone for that matter know of great Antitrust or Securities programs?

Destiny Awaits You
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

Let me repeat myself: go to Harvard if you are admitted there! Your numbers are qualifiable for a place like Harvard. Nevertheless, stop judging yourself (and others) on numbers alone. Let the school decide if you merit admission. You belong at Harvard, man! I pray that you get in and go there.

You're the man!
Saturday, September 24 2005 at 08:00 PM

Ignore all the comments by the liberal whack jobs. ie. "Someone who gets into college through affirmative action, & graduates summa cum laude, in my opinion, deserved to get in--affirmative action or not" -nix So what about the non-URMs with semi-poor stats that would have done the same thing (summa cum laude) but didn't get into the school. Do they deserve to get in despite the fact that they did not. However they were discriminated against because of the color of their skin. As long as affirmative action is in tact racism will thrive. Racism is discrimination based on race, regardless of that race. Therefore, affirmative action is a racist enterprise. How can you eliminate racism with more racism. It's a foolish ideology.

One more thing....
Saturday, September 24 2005 at 08:00 PM

"There are ( very good) reasons (see social-psychological findings) why minorities tend to score lower on standardized tests; reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with lower IQ, intellectual ability, or motivation." - nix That is garbage. What reasons might those be? Any theories on the subject are mere propaganda developed by leftists in an attempt to undermine the inherent equalities possessed by all able-bodied men and women regardless of race. Any interracial anomalies in standardized test scores cannot be attributed to the color of the test-taker's skin. The idea that "URMs just are not good test-takers" is racist and may be deemed an odd social observation but attributing such an occurance to one's race carries zero weight upon scientic analysis Affirmative Action is discrimination based on race, which therefore constitutes racism. As long as this country exploits the enterprise of Affirmative Action, racism will continue to thrive. Only when we can completely disregard race and see past it completely in all facets of life with this everlasting issue begin to subside.

Saturday, September 24 2005 at 08:00 PM

...will this everlasting issue begin to subside.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Sorry ESQ, can't help you with anti-trust....and I agree that the idea that minorities somehow are genetically or culturally programmed to test less well on standardized tests is 1) completely asinine and 2) borderline racist.

Friday, April 07 2006 at 08:00 PM

I think passing up the opportunity to go the best school you can get in just to make a statement is both egoistic and irresponsible. You might get some personal satisfaction out of it, but you are really helping no one of your background with that attitude. You can keep the illusion of meritocracy in school, but I doubt it will hold for long in your carreer. I'm not just talking about discrimination or affirmative action, but all things from fluke, to connections, to subjective factors that will affect your success. Why not be excited about the opportunity to achieve greater things, which is at the same time the opportunity to give back one day to the community and the persons who have supported you in your life.

It's Your Destiny!
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

Don't fight your destiny. You were always meant to be at Harvard. No one (liberals, conservatives, moderates, or racists) can or should determine your destiny for you. Search your soul, my friend. You know what it is telling you: go to H...... :) Congrats on all your acceptances.

You know...
Friday, October 06 2006 at 08:00 PM

Its not too late to erase that stuff in the add'l info box... and pretend you never said it. :) I'm slightly envious of your HLS acceptance, but not at all envious of the crisis of conviction that you must now face. I, for one, would not hold it against you in the least if you go for it (HLS, that is). After all, I agree with some others that your experiment--while laudable in principle and noble in sentiment--will not result in any reliable conclusions. Law school admissions are not as tidy and quantifiable as your experiment assumes. Look at me: I got into W&L with only a 2.79 and a 10% Chiashu. You just never know what factor (soft or hard) will put you over the edge, and for that reason it is impossible to establish controls for such an experiment. Having said all of this, there seems to be prima facie evidence that your race was a factor with HLS. As an anonymous ethnicity (or as a non-minority) you would certainly have been a presumptive rejection, I think. So... once again, I do not envy your dilemma. But also, again, don't feel beholden to all of us on LSN. Follow your conscience, and whatever decision you make will be the right one. Congrats again!

Re: You know...
Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Stsherri, first I just wanted to say congrats on W+L, are you planning on attending? And secondly, I'm not going to be considering the people on LSN when I make my final decision. I'm much more concerned about my obligations to: (in order of increasing importance) myself, my close friends and my family. I have family and friends who know what I'm doing and support my convictions. They will be the ones I will have on my mind in April.

Friday, October 06 2006 at 08:00 PM

Thanks. Still undecided about where to go, as I have yet to hear from a boatload of schools. But W&L is the clear frontrunner, and may be my choice even if I get into some of the "better" schools on my list (UVA would make it a very tough choice). My wife and I visited Lexington this summer and loved it. Bottom line, though, is that money may play a big factor, and I already have one very cheap option at IUB with a merit scholarship offer. I'm going to hate this decision. I hope things crystallize in the next month or two... Good luck to you, and perhaps I'll see you at W&L...

Monday, January 01 2007 at 07:00 PM

Very admirable - I'm still struggling with the whole AA thing too - as well as legacy admits, etc...But, just wanted to point out that "diversity" doesn't always only apply to race... As an active Republican from the Bronx (which is usually viewed as coming from a disadvantaged minority background)- you are presented as an extremely diverse candidate...!

You're a Pioneer!
Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

I know LSN posts won't affect your decision, but I'll add my two cents... You're going to be fine at schools like BU, Fordham, BC, GTown, etc. You're still going to come out making at least 125k if you want, or have great opportunities in politics, govt, public interest, etc. Plus if you turn down HYCS, you'll still have your convictions. It's easy to have convictions when nothing is at stake. What makes a principle is sticking to it when something is at stake. I think AA is an inherently racist policy, that in the end is only going to keep URMs in an inferior position, as it teaches them they need help to achieve what whites can. And if conviction and principle isn't enough to make you reject HYCS, then do it out of self-interest. You should write a book called "Why I Turned Down HLS for BU" (I'd read it). You'll make a ton of money, and do something to improve race relations in the country. BTW, good luck with GTown. I got into HLS, but I'm strongly considering GTown (for far less noble reasons than you, I just want to be in DC for opportunities in govt)

My Last Words on AA
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

Bosco1386, blackcobra122s numbers qualify him for admission to Harvard, but he, and others with similar numbers (thats white, black, Asian, and Latino applicants), must compete against people with highly qualifiable numbers (like yourself) and people with supremely qualifiable numbers (meaning gpas >3.89 and LSAT scores > 174). So those with highly and supremely qualifiable numbers always win out in admissions to HYS by a landslide. So should the modestly qualified even apply to HYS, and should they feel inferior to applicants with greater numbers if, by chance, they are admitted to such elite schools? Are you, bosco1386, destined to feel inferior to people at Harvard and, especially, at Yale with much higher numbers than your own? Moreover, will you be devastated if someone with lower numbers performs better in law school than you? If your answer is yes to either the 2nd or 3rd question, you should not go to Harvard or Yale. Likewise, BlackCobra122 should not go to Harvard if he will feel inferior to his classmates with higher numbers. I agree with you that AA is a policy littered with ethical problems, but I disagree with you and Black Cobra that it is an inherently racist social policy, for the policy is not premised on a belief or theory that Asian and white applicants with modestly qualifiable numbers are inherently inferior to black and Latino students with similar numbers. Rather, and herein lies the problem with AA, it often (but not always) gives such black and Latino applicants an edge in admissions over similarly credentialed white and Asian students, since fewer black and Latino applicants present highly and supremely qualifiable numbers in law school admission. Consequently, for the sake of diversity, elite law schools take a modest number of modestly qualified black and Latino applicants. AA opponents still consider this as an unfair policy even if they do not see it as a racist policy. Thus they are pushing the nations law schools and colleges to adopt a race free and an ultimately numbers based admissions policy. To be modestly qualified will no longer be sufficient. Sorry, but I still find it hard to believe that BlackCobra122s numbers are disqualifying numbers for Harvard. Bosco1386, please help me to understand.

Monday, January 15 2007 at 07:00 PM

You have, by far, the most interesting story I've come across on LSN. I don't think you shouldn't feel so conflicted - I would love to have to make the decision you have to make... And I highly doubt people would hold it against you if you chose to go to HLS. Congratulations! Very impressive.

Thanks, and a response
Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Thanks for the support, coffeegirl and lonelytylenol. OSUBUS: It's always nice to get support from someone who's in a similar position. Regarding your question: If I decide to go to one of these "lesser" institutions, I don't think I'm restricting myself in the way that you imply. There's no question HLS opens doors unlike any other institution. But I'm not talking about turning down HLS for SouthWestern Kentucky's Community College of Law (although I kind of like the name, maybe they should build one). If I do well at BU or Fordham, (and I have this story to tell), I'm pretty confident I'll still be able to leave my mark. Perhaps even more so. And while I would certainly feel some remorse about taking the HLS offer under these conditions, I would never hold it against you or anyone else. Good luck.

Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

I'm the "logged user" that just typed that whole long thing, don't know what happened there.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

I appreciate the well wishes, and I just want to add that you've done a good job capturing my view of the issue. Looks like you don't need any luck with the cycle, but I'll say good luck wherever you end up. Scholarship at NW, or just planning on taking the offer to H/Y?

Thanks Cobra...
Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

The scholarship at NW is actually for next year - they offered admission with a 1 year deferral with the scholarship (I'm only 1 year out of undergrad and NW is big on experience) But I think I want to start this year, so I probably won't accept. H/Y are the front runners, but a huge amount of money from NYU/UPENN/CLS could make things interesting (although the fact that I haven't heard from CLS is scaring me.) GULC is the dark horse. I see myself ending up in gov't in some capacity, so the location is nice. Good luck to you too...maybe we'll both end up at GULC.

Thanks Bosco1386
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

Good points on your part also. But Harvard Law is hardly guilty of condescension by admitting someone like our man blackcobra122, since nearly 99% of the admitted folks who matriculate to HLS graduate! HLS is not in the business of admitting people who cannot survive there. Graduating is the key; making law review is not the key. By graduating from HLS one has proven he/she was qualified to be admitted. Actually, only 40+ students from each 1L class make the law review the following year. Is the rest of the class doomed to obscurity? Not hardly. Moreover, not every student who arrives at HLS with a 3.9 gpa and 175 LSAT makes the law review. So does not making the law review diminishes the value of attending HLS? How do we evaluate the one or two students with more modest grades and LSAT scores, like blackcobra122, who make the law review each year? Should such accomplishments be devalued? No, I trust the admission decisions of HLS. But I do agree that just because you are accepted to a HYS means you should attend such a school. However, if you are admitted, the history of such schools shows that you will graduate and may even excel. Wishing you bosco1386 and blackcobra122 the best wherever you decide to go to law school, but I do hope you will both end-up at Harvard.

P.S. on Graduating from Harvard Law
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

According to LSAC data on a recent graduating class from HLS, 9 students left HLS before graduating (only two 1Ls left) , but none (0) left for academic reasons. Thus an admission to HLS is no joke, and it is certainly not a waste. Thus, bosco1386, HLS is not toying with blackcobra122. He is definitely qualified to do the work at Harvard.

Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

Once again I'm the logged user.

Appreciate Your Honesty Bosco1386
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

I must say I better understand you and blackcobras position on the issue because of your honesty. Of course, I still disagree with you on some of the fundamental issues concerning AA, particularly your insistence on calling AA a racist policy. You all have changed the meaning of the word racist to make your argument about the unfairness of AA. The problem is that your definition does not meet the inherency denotation that is a principle part of the meaning of the word. Under the correct definition of the word, even black persons can be labeled as racists, but only if they believe they are inherently superior to another racial group and another racial group is inherently inferior to members of the black race. However, most blacks do not hold such an extreme and immoral view. Instead, more blacks, along with members of other races, are guilty of holding prejudicial rather than racist views of other races. The argument that you should be using is that affirmative action is a prejudicial policy, since it often favors lower scoring blacks and Latinos over higher scoring whites and Asians. (Note the distinction: the words prejudice and racist are not synonymous.) You could earn more headway by using such an argument and proper term. But using the incorrect term racists to characterize AA weakens your argument and depicts you as unwilling to engage in dialogue over real racist issues. You know AA is not aboout advancing inherently superior blacks and Latinos over inherently inferior whites and Asians or inherently inferior blacks and Latinos over inherently superior whites and Asians. Come on bosco1386 and blackcobra122 and be morally and intellectually honest: you guys have been using the wrong word to describe affirmative action. Much love, my brothers.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Miracle: agreed. Substitute discriminatory or prejudicial for racist in what Bosco said to make it more accurate. Regardless of semantics though, I think his point is clear.

Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

Fair point about calling it "racist." Like I said, I'm against treating someone differently on the basis of race. I suppose that's not "racism" necessarily, but I'm still against granting admission based on race. But like you said, "racist" is a bit extreme. That being said, I reiterate my point that AA is a divisive policy and it leads us further away from a color-blind society, which I think is desirable. And by color-blind, I don't mean a society where people aren't aware of race, but one where race itself doesn't affect your job prospects, college admissions, etc. I have a dream...

Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

I think both of you will make fine lawyers one day. But understand, you will have to do battle with lawyers who may be a lot sharper than you. Correct terms and solid arguments matter a lot in the real world. Hope to meet you out there one day. Peace.

Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

Goes without saying, but that was me again - damn LSN keeps logging me out

Just As I Expected
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

You are not intellectually honest. You did describe AA as a racist policy, you are guilty of redefining the word "racist," and you did infer that blackcobra122 is unqualified for Harvard. And yes, I did not attack all the points you raised about AA. This forum is not appropriate for such a lengthy discourse. I will be writing a journal piece on other issues you raised later in the year. You shouldn't be so proud. I'm a philospher major also, and I know and you know that I soundly countered some of the arguments you made. So good luck to you. Peace, my brother.

Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

The only time I wasn't honest was when I said "good points Miracle," but I was trying to be nice. As for the terminology, I clarified what I meant. And I'm not "proud" as if I've won some sort of argument - we're all novices on the subject and just throwing things out there. I'm just saying, in a discussion on AA, you've went off on a lot of tangents that I can't see how they relate to the discussion. I'm by no means an expert on AA, but my point was simple: less qualified URMs gain admission over more qualified non-URMs (as far admissions officers can determine being qualified), and I think this is wrong. I don't see how this was addressed by anything you said.

The above is me, Miracle
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

Now I've got the bug:)

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

I welcome dialogue about the subject (AA), especially considering how controversial it is...but I think you've both made your points. And besides, aren't you curious to hear from others? I appreciate the (generally) respectful exchange, and I wish you both luck.

Got Your Message
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

Best wishes, blackcobra122.

Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

Haha, you're right...sorry for hijacking your comments section...again, good luck!

Friday, September 29 2006 at 08:00 PM

someone else cited your site as the "most interesting debate on LSN." I think they're right. I have many of the same concerns about AA as you, and I think you should do what your convictions tell you to do.... that said, I think it is worth noting that even taking URM status into account, there are very very few people who have gotten into Harvard with your numbers. To me this indicates that your application, your personal statement, etc. were impressive above and beyond your numbers or URM status. I'd like to think that law schools value ideological and cultural diversity as much as racial diversity. And I think what made you stand out to Harvard was not just that you were a URM with a high LSAT, but that you were a black male who had some respectable academic accomplishments AND happened to be a member of the College Republicans, etc. I think it will be awesome if you do go someplace like Fordham and write a book about your decision, but I also think that it was not simply URM-status that got you into HLS and CLS.... Or at least, I'd like to think that excitement about diversity of viewpoints that played a role in the adcomms decisions. Good luck with Georgetown. DC is awesome, and I'm sure you'll really enjoy living there, if GULC is where you end up.

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

I'd heard about the case before but I never read the actual findings. Thanks for the heads-up...I started reading them and, as you would expect, they do a good job laying out what we've been saying. As a sidenote, I don't want you to feel banned from my wall or something crazy like that. I was just suggesting that you and Miracle take a few breaths so that we could see if others had anything to add. Again, good luck with your decision.

Congrats... and a question
Friday, March 02 2007 at 07:00 PM

Hey, I applaud you for adhering to your beliefs (I'm actually a white, upper class AA supporter), but I have to question the methodology. By the way, I apologize if I'm repeating what others have said elsewhere. Aren't you, by only revealing your URM status to the top 4 schools and then not attending any of the schools to which you reported your URM status on principle, essentially limiting your choices to those schools outside of the top 4? I think with your obvious conviction and intelligence that you have a shot at these places regardless your skin color--to preemptively disqualify yourself from attending them seems a bit short-sighted. Anyway, you got in, big thumbs up for that!

GO TO HARVARD!!!! (or Stanford, Yale, Co
Sunday, March 18 2007 at 08:00 PM

As a white republican firmly against AA, I say GO TO HARVARD! (or your school of choice) 1)There are many things unfair in life, and many advantages. Some people are able to hire private tutors and do better on the LSAT and grades because of them. Other people have to work full time while doing it. Since life isn't fair by nature, I think you should use every advantage you get (that is legal and ethical in your moral system) 2) I've white people with your numbers get into the top 5 too. (I have no idea why - it seems hit or miss - I've seen people get into Yale with 150s and not get in with 180) 3) From the little I've seen and know about you, I think that you are more capable at doing well in a top 5 school then others with higher scores. Schools use the LSAT not because it is a particularly good tool, but because it is the only tool they have. That said, BC is a great school as well. I'm sure you will do well where ever you go. Very proud of you! :) (and I just read your profile about 2 minutes ago)

Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

SlowChildrenAtPlay: I understand your point that it's not categorically impossible for me to be admitted to HYCS with my numbers when race isn't a factor. However, after reading extensively about the law school admissions process, I decided that Gtown and UMich would be good reach schools for me to aim for when my race is a non-factor. Originally, after discussing the issue with my family for some time, I had no intent on including my race or applying to "better" schools (although I toyed with Penn/UVA) . Later, during an informal (and somewhat inebriated) conversation with a few friends, I decided to try out this "experiment" of sorts. Again, I understand your point that each year HYCS take in a few students with my numbers who do not fall under the URM category; however, I am fairly certain that I do not bring to the table the outstanding features that usual distinguish these candidates...published books, military medals etc. Nanochick: I haven't made my decision yet, although crunch time is getting closer. I will tell you that I have had more talks with my parents and most likely I will send a deposit to both Harvard and BC, and continue hoping I will get off the waitlist at Georgetown. Thank you for the support.

Sunday, March 25 2007 at 08:00 PM

I think what you did was awesome. It's certainly an interesting experiment. Also, it's your admissions process, why does what anyone else think matter? I do think it hurt you, scholarship money wise. Not sure if you have contacted the schools you want to go to and tell them you are a URM, but you might as well. That would also be an interesting experiment: How much more money would you get as a URM vs. an unknown?

Sunday, April 01 2007 at 08:00 PM

on your acceptances and strong moral fiber...interesting that you are considering Harvard though you said you wouldn't before, I guess once you're in it's harder to say no to the leg up? Good luck wherever you end up!

good for you
Sunday, December 11 2005 at 07:00 PM

and good luck.

Sunday, December 03 2006 at 07:00 PM

Hey I'm from the Bronx too. What undergrad did you go to? I can't say I agree with your AA remarks but to each his own. All I can say is AA was invented for a reason and its purpose has not yet been filled. Best of luck to you!!!

Friday, September 29 2006 at 08:00 PM

huge congrats on Georgetown. have a great time, and good luck. I look forward to reading your book on this whole experiment one day,.

Wishing You the Best
Saturday, September 02 2006 at 08:00 PM

Congratulations on Georgetown! You got into your top choice, which makes you happy. And I must say, since you are happy, I am happy for you. Hopefully, we will meet one day. Until then, have a great time at Georgetown and a great legal career as well.

you know what?
Tuesday, January 09 2007 at 07:00 PM

I think that your experiment is awesome, and really important as well. But the best part about it is that because of your conviction and principles you deserved to get into those schools anyway! Not because of your race. I don't know if I would be able to turn down Harvard, even if I set out to from the beginning. You are most impressive, and I am confident that you are going to make a very good and responsible lawyer. Have fun at G-town.

Thursday, December 07 2006 at 07:00 PM

I haven't looked at your profile in a couple months, but I see you're attending Georgetown. That's great news...I'm really happy that everything worked out for you. Now all you have to deal with is the stigma of "he only got into Georgetown cause he's black," even though obviously it's untrue in your case - another one of the many problems with AA. Seriously though, congratulations and good luck with everything.

Law school
Tuesday, December 05 2006 at 07:00 PM

Thanks for the words of encouragement everyone! I visited Gtown this weekend, and I loved it (thank God...). Bosco makes a funny point. I'm sure at least once or twice I'll get that vibe from another student (i.e. you don't deserve to be here), and I don't plan on trying to convince him/her about my actual application process. I'm sure I'll be ticked off at first, but then I'll just laugh it off because if they only knew the truth...

you're welcome
Friday, September 29 2006 at 08:00 PM

and, yes, Yale's "no grades" thing is awesome.

Sunday, December 10 2006 at 07:00 PM

on all your acceptances! You had a very interesting experiment. I'm glad everything worked out for you. Good luck at Georgetown!

Monday, April 21 2008 at 08:00 PM

I have a lot of respect for you! i definitely agree with your opinion and position, and I'm really glad that you had the strength of character to follow through with it. Obviously, it wasn't easy. Good luck at Georgetown (you prob won't need it!) But seriously, I'm so used to people using whatever they can to get ahead that it's really refreshing to see this. Thanks for sharing!

Your duty
Sunday, November 14 2010 at 07:00 PM

Hey BlackCobra122. I commend you for what you did. Very admirable. Unfortunately, you have an obligation to continue what you started. You must write to the schools and tell them what you did, why you did it, and that you are going to tell anyone who'll listen about it. The only way for this madness to stop is through action. Merely observing the phenomenon won't change anything. Please consider what I'm saying. Good luck! -Rational human being