tortguy (2022-2023)

I received the admitted students packet in the mail on Saturday.

I got that same letter regarding the Dean ... what is that all about?

Hofstra sending that letter was just another mystifying action on their part. U of Buffalo is prime time with me at this moment. Will hope that Penn State with their very professional and positive letter to me decides to accept. Also sent a late app into CUSE....

Did you attend an ASV? After attending one, it sealed the deal for me! Can't beat the tuition, ranking, cost of living and the programs are really great - clinics, NYC Institute, etc.

No, didn't attend the ASV. But the same things appealed to me: terrfic faculty, bridge term, super programs, and tuition that is saving me $20,000-30,000 Plus a year !

Believe it or not I can't decide where I want to be.. I graduated from Bucknell two years ago and have been living in Manhattan ever since. Even though I'm from Rochester originally I'm not sure if I'm ready to go back to upstate NY. Where did you go? Do you think I'm crazy for being uncertain? Buffalo is such a great school!!

Hey man...I'm still undecided between Buffalo and FSU & I'm running out of time to decide...what made you choose Buffalo?

I just made the decision to attend St. John's... it was a really difficult decision for me but all factors considered I think it's the best option for me right now. Best of luck at UB, I'm sure you will have a great experience there!

Do you happen to know if there has been any movement on the wait list?

Thanks for the insider info! I also hope to see you at orientation!! I'm praying!

Thanks for the insider info! I also hope to see you at orientation!! I'm praying!

I just read that about the new faculty- that's awesome! (still hoping...)

Hello! Thanks for all of your support during this cycle! Each day I do not hear, I lose more and more hope... I suppose there is always next year. Any advice for a last minute attempt?

No word...yet..although I did write another letter of continued interest...we'll see I will update you in a week! (still hopeful)

I have not heard anything..and I doubt I will at this point. Good luck to you!! thanks for all of your support!!

I'm definitely applying to UB.. just finishing up those extra essays they have. congrats to you on getting in! sounds like you're having a great time

thanks for the comment. I've been at UB for my undergrad career, and have been taking a few graduate courses as well. I just hope my GPA and LSAT are good enough to be accepted. I'll be sending out all my apps in a couple of weeks!

thanks for the comment. I've been at UB for my undergrad career, and have been taking a few graduate courses as well. I just hope my GPA and LSAT are good enough to be accepted. I'll be sending out all my apps in a couple of weeks!

thanks for the comment. I've been at UB for my undergrad career, and have been taking a few graduate courses as well. I just hope my GPA and LSAT are good enough to be accepted. I'll be sending out all my apps in a couple of weeks!

i have no idea why that posted 3 times. i definitely clicked it once. whoops, haha

I hear only good things about Buffalo, It is up there on the list.

i am going to apply ..for sure.. why is that tuition is so cheap?

Thanks for your comment about UB Law. Actually, I am very interested in UB Law and I just sent the application today. I am very interested in practicing law in the areas of Affordable Housing, and Community Development.

Hi, I just wanted some first hand information from a current student at Buffalo. I'm seriously thinking about going to Buffalo because of their MSW/JD dual degree program. Please tell me about your experiences there in general. Would you have attended another school? How competitive is the student body? You can also get in touch with me via e-mail. Thanks a bunch!

Hi, I just wanted some first hand information from a current student at Buffalo. I'm seriously thinking about going to Buffalo because of their MSW/JD dual degree program. Please tell me about your experiences there in general. Would you have attended another school? How competitive is the student body? You can also get in touch with me via e-mail. Thanks a bunch!

Thanks! I got a fee waiver a few days ago, and after some research I was really impressed. Buffalo seems like a really great place to live, too. I would be enthralled to get in.

Hey, thanks for the information. Yeah, I've been looking at Buffalo more and its becoming more appealing. Just got to wait to see what happens with all these apps. The waiting game sincerely sucks.

thanks for the tip. I would love U at B. It depends upon what my new LSAT is. If you wouldn't mind I'd like to ask you some questions about your 1L experience. Could I have your email perhaps? Thanks again!

Thanks...I'm looking seriously at Buffalo and I may decide to attend...we'll see.

Thanks...I'm looking seriously at Buffalo and I may decide to attend...we'll see.

Thanks...I'm looking seriously at Buffalo and I may decide to attend...we'll see.

Thanks...I'm looking seriously at Buffalo and I may decide to attend...we'll see.

I actually visited UB and I loved it. It is definitely near the top of my list. The price is a huge draw.

and if you have an email address I could reach you at, let me know!

Thanks for the congrats! It's between UB and Denver at this point. If my wife still has a job next year it'll definitely be UB! Glad to see that someone else likes Buffalo as much as I do.

Do you know what the housing situation is like? How easy is it to get the apartments that are close to the school?

I wanted to let you know that UB is my first choice...hopefully I see you there in Sept. 08.

so much for the congrats message and I would definitely consider UB. Do they offer fee waivers ususally? I have applied to a lot of schools but I suppose one more could never hurt. Can you email me some more information about the school from your perspective. Thanks!

Hi tortguy, I noticed that you seem very excited about attending Buffalo. I was wondering if you could tell me what life is like at Buffalo, your classmates, grading, etc.... Any information would be appreciated as I am beginning to lean towards Buffalo. Thanks

Thanks for the update. UB is looking more and more likely for me!

I'm hoping that i have the numbers to get in . I've heard good things about Buffalo & the tuition is great! I've never been to Buffalo though...

Hey! I really want to attend UB but my numbers aren't best. Any advice?

i really want to attend the BUFFALO LAW.

I look forward to seeing you there next year then!

Hey Tortguy, I was recently accepted to UB and It is highly possible that I will attend. I was wonder around how much the tuition would be with room and board after financial aid? Thanks alot

Thanks. UB is actually my first choice. I haven't been accepted yet but I feel optimistic. How's the school? Do they have a good career service staff? And how's the curve and ranking system like there? Thanks

Hey Tortguy! Just wanted to let you know that i have scheduled a visit to the school next month and i will be in Buffalo for a few days to check out the area. I would like to PM you if you don't mind, to ask you questions specific to my situation that you may be able to answer since you're a current student.

Thanks, so sounds like you would recommend Buffalo over Syracuse. What do you think my chances of getting in are?

you seem to looove buffalo! aside from the ivy league credentials of the professors, and its ranking that continues to climb the US News ladder, what do you like most about it?

i'm sold! hah, now here's hoping i get in...

Yeah, I'm still considering U at B. The main thing I'm really worried about is the weather. I hate perpetual grayness. I'm reading a book by a prof who grew up in Buff and he says there are two colors: gray and grayer. That is not the kind of environment I want to be learning the law in. But alas, it is still a place I am considering. I will try to make it to an ASD day soon. Thanks again!

Haha - thanks for the well wishes. I have been looking really closely at Buffalo. Maybe you could answer a question for me: Do you need a car on campus?

Thanks for your best wishes. I'm originally from upstate New York (loving that in state tuition, by the way), with many friends attending UB for undergrad. My sister graduated with her BA from there last May, so I'm familiar with the school and will definitely let you know what I decide. A couple questions if you don't mind (you seem very enthusiastic about the school): Now that you're completing your first year at UB Law, what do you have planned for the summer? Do a lot of 1Ls find work as summer associates? And, like Hafsken, I'm curious about the car situation. I've been in NYC for the past four years so it hasn't been an issue. I know there's a transportation system on campus at UB, but how convenient is it and do people actually use it? Thanks a lot and good luck finishing your first year!

Thanks. As of now, I'm leaning towards UB, even though it's likely to drop in ranking this yr. Check this out: <a href="http://money-law.blogspot.com/2007/07/2008-usn-law-school-rankings-under-new.html" title="http://money-law.blogspot.com/2007/07/2008-usn-law-school-rankings-under-new.html" class="data">http://money-law.blogspot.com/2007/07/2008-usn-law-school-rankings-under-new.html</a>

Moocow, I've excerpted a note from the article you mentioned. It does not use current data but past data as a model for what might occur. So I am confident UB Law will remain strong. "however, by making it hypothetically effective a year earlier. I did just that, using my model of the 2008 rankings. Herewith the results.."

I am really excited and will be heading up for one of the ASDs. :) I also received my housing assignment and am very happy with it!

Thanks for the information! I am flying out to UB next week to check out the campus and Buffalo in general. I am excited as I have never been to NY. I am a bit confused how the grading works at UB. If no GPA or rank is issued, how do you know how you are doing? If grades are given, but no GPA is calculated, what would you estimate the mean GPA for 1L's? Thanks again for all the information you have provided to all LSN'ers. I read through all your posts and they are very informative.

Hi Tortguy- Out of curiosity, could you let me know which classes UB law students take their 1L fall?

hey i applied and you never gave a comment... But seriously-- why do you have such a vested interest in promoting the school? Getting lonely up there? or do you really mean what you say?

Shoot me an e-mail, I have a couple of questions to ask you. Thanks.

Thanks for the support-- im just down at the moment since I have only received wait lists or denials-- but im really counting on Buffalo to come through. Too bad your not an admissions officer-- or you dont know anyone in the admissions office....lol

hey thanks im actually going to be there on April 3rd to tour the campus. Do you like the school? Any drawbacks? I want to do something with public policy working in government any possibilites of that at UB?

thanks buddy. congrats on your acceptance as well. wish you the best

Hi, since I will be attending Buffalo in the Fall, I will like to inquire about living on campus. Do you/Did you live on campus? How was your experience? Are stores easily accessible from the school? What else will you like to tell me about life on campus?

Hi, since I will be attending Buffalo in the Fall, I will like to inquire about living on campus. Do you/Did you live on campus? How was your experience? Are stores easily accessible from the school? What else will you like to tell me about life on campus?

Hi, since I will be attending Buffalo in the Fall, I will like to inquire about living on campus. Do you/Did you live on campus? How was your experience? Are stores easily accessible from the school? What else will you like to tell me about life on campus?

Hi, tortguy. I was hoping you were right about UB staying at the the same rank but they dropped to 100 this yr. I was expecting them to drop a little but not to 100. Do you have any gusses as what caused such a big drop?

Moocow, You need to look at the BIG PICTURE. UB Law is a VERY STRONG Tier 2 school with very low tuition. How many law schools offer what UB Law does: --A mentor who is a praciticing attorney to every first year student ! --A January Bridge Term that engages you in the nuts and bolts of lawyering. --No curve in any classes...students really help each other and cheerlead each other ! --The opportunity to earn dual degrees in many fields. --Only one required course your second and third years---YOU HAVE A HUGE OPPORTUNITY TO CRAFT YOUR OWN LEGAL EDUCATION ! --The Best Wings in the USA !

How did the dean address UB's drop in rankings to 100? I am concerned! <a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search" title="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search" class="data">http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search</a>

US News used a new formula this year with the rankings. The bottom line is this: UB Law is a strong second tier school with the most favorable tuition (BY FAR !) of any law school in the state. You say you are concerned. Well, you can go to Hofstra (one notch above UB) and pay $37,600 tuition PLUS room/bd and expenses each year: or you can go to Syracuse (tied with UB) and pay $41,000 a year tuition plus room/bd and expenses each year or do you want to go to UB and if you are a NYS resident you pay just over $13,000 a year. Talking about being concerned....I would be GREATLY CONCERNED the the amount of debt I would pile up with Hofstra or Syarcuse U.

US News used a new formula this year with the rankings. The bottom line is this: UB Law is a strong second tier school with the most favorable tuition (BY FAR !) of any law school in the state. You say you are concerned. Well, you can go to Hofstra (one notch above UB) and pay $37,600 tuition PLUS room/bd and expenses each year: or you can go to Syracuse (tied with UB) and pay $41,000 a year tuition plus room/bd and expenses each year or do you want to go to UB and if you are a NYS resident you pay just over $13,000 a year. Talking about being concerned....I would be GREATLY CONCERNED the the amount of debt I would pile up with Hofstra or Syarcuse U.

Thanks, tortguy. I am no longer "concerned". Best of Luck at UB!!

A new draft of legal history: Multi-volume project includes three UB Law contributors Buffalo, NY, April 4, 2008 - Three UB Law professors one per volume are represented in a project its publisher calls "the most comprehensive and authoritative account possible of the history of American law." The massive three-volume Cambridge History of Law in America features essays by Alfred Konefsky, University at Buffalo Distinguished Professor; Elizabeth Mensch, SUNY Distinguished Teaching Professor; and John Henry Schlegel, Roger and Karen Jones Faculty Scholar and Professor. They are among sixty legal historians writing in their areas of expertise, in a publication that seeks to summarize and synthesize the history of law in America. The project's co-editor is Christopher L. Tomlins, a senior research fellow at the American Bar Foundation and the former editor of Law and History Review. He says Cambridge University Press commissioned the project a decade ago as part of a continuing series of multi-volume works of this nature. "It is most definitely not intended to be an encyclopedia," Tomlins says, "but rather a collaborative work of scholarship involving numerous scholars, each with the expertise to write an original synthesis of work in his or her particular field of endeavor. It is also interpretive and imaginative in laying out both the scope of work in that field and imparting direction to it." Tomlins says it is unusual to have three contributors from one university, but he knows Konefsky, Mensch, and Schlegel personally. "Of course," Tomlins says, "everybody has produced very good, very original work, the kind of work you would expect from highly experienced, highly skilled scholars, for which Buffalo is well-known. The Buffalo Law School has a tremendous interest in critical and unique thinking. It is most certainly not a standard law school."

A Message From Our Dean May 19, 2008 Dear UB Law School Community: On May 7, 2008, President John B. Simpson and Provost Satish K. Tripathi appointed me to serve as the 19th dean of the University at Buffalo Law School. I am both honored and humbled to have been chosen to lead this fine institution at a pivotal time in its history. It will be my privilege to work with our talented faculty, dedicated staff, fine students, and devoted alumni to enhance academic excellence the cardinal reason for our being at UB Law School. I am pleased to report that we start the process of revitalizing the Law School from a position of strength. We enjoy a fine faculty, an innovative curriculum, and acclaimed clinics all the tools necessary for a high quality legal education that consistently produces top-notch attorneys. However, we must understand that the Law School is facing an increasingly competitive marketplace. That is why we must seize every opportunity to move ourselves forward. I am convinced that that we must think big, act boldly, and work tirelessly to secure a strong future for our School. For a long time, UB Law was at the forefront of new developments in legal education. Now we must think anew and adopt fresh strategies to become leaders again. Please allow me to share with you my vision for the Law School. For UB Law to become a center of academic excellence, I intend to invest in hiring more faculty with star potential, raise the academic profile of our student body, and do better outreach with our alumni and the legal profession. These efforts must be centered on the strength of our curriculum and a great teaching faculty. We must create a culture that incubates and fosters superior scholarship and teaching. In this regard, we recently hired six terrific new faculty members, and I am planning to hire at least six more in key curricular areas over the next two years. I am developing plans to encourage and support faculty scholarship and productivity which lie at the heart of the reputation of any law school. To do so, we will need the support of the state and our alumni to mobilize the resources necessary. There is no doubt that the School needs to establish endowed chairs and professorships, without which we cannot effectively compete with other law schools for good hires. We live in an increasingly globalized world and cannot afford to think like a regional law school. All our peer schools have launched exciting new programs to become players in the global marketplace. In this respect, we want to build on several strengths to raise our profile. These include our New York City Program in International Law and Finance, which exposes our students to practice at the center of global transactions, and the Human Rights Center, which is the focus of our work in international law and human rights. In addition, we have a pilot program that trains attorneys, prosecutors, and activists in Brazil and Eastern Europe on handling domestic violence cases. These are exciting vistas that will form the law school of the future. I believe that a good legal education is designed to produce thinking and practice-ready attorneys. That is why in the past few months, I have taken steps to establish a skills program that brings together research and writing, trial and appellate advocacy, alternative dispute resolution, moot courts, and negotiation. Once it is established, the program will be headed by a tenured faculty member to give it security and prominence in our curriculum. You are no doubt aware of some of the challenges that we face today. First, the budget passed by the New York State Legislature included more than $50 million for developing SUNY public law schools in Binghamton and at Stony Brook, as well as a private law school in Rochester. Our position on this is simple and supported by the facts: there is no market rationale or professional justification for more law schools in New York State. I firmly believe that the future of New York State public legal education resides in UB Law. We have already begun the process of stating this case with the Mayor of Buffalo, the Western New York delegation in Albany, and other vital constituencies within the state. I need to address the matter of our reputation. Unfortunately, the School recently dropped in the U.S. News & World Report\'s 2008 rankings from 77 to 100. Let me first assure you of the obvious: we are precisely the same law school in May that we were in March. One of the reasons for the drop is that U.S. News changed its formula for calculating rankings. This of course reveals starkly what everyone already knows: the U.S. News methodology is deeply flawed. Nevertheless, we cannot dispute its impact. Because no other major publisher produces an alternative ranking, prospective students, parents, legal employers and alumni remain focused on this sole metric. For that reason, we must work diligently within the admittedly artificial parameters of the U.S. News methodology to reverse this slip as quickly as possible. The reputation of law schools are fickle, but have a real impact in the marketplace. We must address rankings, but not be solely instrumentalist. On the contrary, I propose that UB Law rededicate itself to the continued pursuit of actual academic excellence regardless of the metrics used by one publisher to sell magazines. I want us to set our sights as high as we can. With adequate support from the state and our alumni, I believe that we should aspire to be a Top 50 law school in the next five years. Is that an aggressive target? Absolutely. But why shouldn\'t we strive to be recognized as one of the best public law schools in the nation? In these challenges, we will find opportunities and renewed energy to do better, aim higher, and perhaps most importantly, broadcast our strengths with a shout, not a whisper. You know as I do - that this is a fine school. It is time for the rest of the world to know. I intend to use all the forums available to me to dialogue with you about what needs to be done to secure for our Law School a place atop the pedestal of legal education. I hope you will join me as we strive to help our School achieve a higher level of recognition in outreach, reputation, and standing. We thank you for your commitment and loyalty to UB Law. Best regards, Makau Mutua, Dean SUNY Distinguished Professor and Floyd H. and Hilda L. Hurst Faculty Scholar UNIVERSITY AT BUFFALO LAW SCHOOL, JOHN LORD O\'BRIAN HALL, BUFFALO, NEW YORK 14260-1100 (716) 645-2052 LAW-DEANS@BUFFALO.EDU Terms of Use

Recently, preLaw Magazine ranked UB Law School 38th in the country for \"Best Value\" based on a combination of our low tuition, high employment rate, and high New York State bar passage rate. With our expert faculty and unusually diverse student body, UB Law is a dynamic and supportive place to learn the law. Students from around the nation and abroad come to UB Law for an excellent education and a fast start in successful careers.

Heyyy thanks for the good wishes.. what do you love most about the school? What is your concentration? I really like the people ive spoken to.. Dean Mutua is amazing as well as Vice Dean lilie..

Make the Smart Choice Start thinking like a lawyer and make the smart choice. Which law school is the best value for your "education dollar? UB Law gives you the best value in New York schools when you examine the facts: (click below for larger image) Best Value: In addition, UB Law offers merit scholarships that range from $1200 to full tuition. Fifty percent of the class of 2011 were offered scholarships. Our students work at the same law firms and earn the same starting salaries as graduates who attended the pricey private schools. Starting salaries for UB Law graduates in the Class of 2007 reached a high of $160,000. Taking into consideration the practice area, employment location, and cost of attending UB Law, the return on investment is the best in the state of New York. No need to mortgage your future when you attend the State of New York's Law School. To learn more, contact: Office of Admissions University at Buffalo Law School 309 O'Brian Hall Buffalo, NY 14260-1100 Telephone: (716) 645-2907 Fax: (716) 645-6676 law-admissions@buffalo.edu

Thanks for the info about UB law and the environment. I heard it gets pretty cold up there!

Thanks. Ill be attending an upcoming open house. I look forward to visiting UB.

I already sent in my application so there is nothing more I can do. Now you have me worried. Buffalo is my first choice! Well I guess I will work on my other applications, since you seem to think I will not get in to Buffalo.

Hey, thank you for the good wishes. And, what specifically do you like about it? And just for some additional info, what type of law are you/ or are you planning to study?

Thanks for the idea! I'm assuming you go there, do you like it? I have family in the area and they seem to like it up there, just wondering.

Thanks- I am really hoping to get into UB. I am concerned about my low GPA but hoping my LSAT will help me out. I went to an open house a couple of weeks ago and it seems like a great place. I love Buffalo and Niagara Falls... a couple of questions: What's the social scene like? Is it better to live off campus or on?

I went to UB undergrad. Odds are against me doing Law School there as well, just because I want to try something new! But, we will see what happens when I start hearing from schools. Thanks for the note!

I never considered Buffalo law simply because its in Buffalo. Its cold and isolated. Hows law school life treating ya?

Thanks for the comment. As an undergrad at UB, I know that it's a quality law school, but I actually think the biggest staying-factor for me would be getting to watch Turner Gill continue his amazing job with the football team!

Thanks, I am currently an undergrad there and it is my number one choice if I am accepted so my fingers are crossed

Hey- thanks! I would love to get into Buffalo..haven't heard anything back yet.

so 95% i am going to UB next year.. and i'm visiting again for accepted students day this weekend :)

Thanks for the good wishes, tortguy. &lt;shrug&gt; I've written my LOCI to UB, and still have my fingers crossed -- but Quinnipiac wants to give me $75k to go to a program that has everything I want in a great setting. Muddling things further: Case Western accepted me today. I have NO IDEA where I'm going to be this fall :-/

I had a few questions. 1. You said Mercedes education. What was the best aspect education wise at UB. Is it true there is no curve? 2. I love cities. How does Buffalo compare to some larger cities. Is there a lot to do? Is there time to do it with the workload? 3. Any sense of the jobs people get over the summers. I'm really inkling to work with a judge at some point, or do stuff in DC. 4. Also, can you just tell me your favorite and least favorite thing about the school? Thanks for all your help. I'm having an impossible time making a decision.